Health Level Seven Implementation/Conformance Technical Committee
San Antonio 2008 Working Group Meeting Minutes
Implementation/Conformance Meeting Minutes
San Antonio Working Group Meeting, January 13 through 18, 2008
QUARTER 1, Monday 14 January 2008
Topic: Meeting overview & Updates
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Carnahan, Lisa / NIST /
Creaven, Don / VA /
Donker, Dick / Philips Healthcare /
Gebase, Len / NIST /
Kim, Hangchan / IHISResearchCenter /
Lynton-Moll, Chris / CCeH /
Oemig, Frank / Agfa Healthcare /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Snelick, Robert / NIST /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
5 / Approval of this Meeting agenda
6 / v2.7 proposals (length discussion)
7 / Discussion of QPD, RTD and ADD repeating last field and implications for conformance (time permitting)
8 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 09:15 AM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
III.Announcements
None
IV.Approval of the previous WGM minutes
The meetings could not be found. Lisa will post these and voting will be deferred until these are available.
V.Approval of this WGM Meeting Agenda
The agenda was reviewed and updated on the Wiki. See Revised Agenda for the Jan 2008 WGM in San Antonio at the end of this document.
VI.v2.7 proposals (length discussion)
Proposal 506, regarding minimum and maximum lengths, was discussed.
Discussed the length for the double quotes ("") and escape characters (for delimiters). Request additional text to be inserted in chapter 2. This should be a technical correction to previous versions.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / Area1 / Request additional text for chapter 2 regarding the length of the double quotes ("") and escape characters (for delimiters). / Rob S. / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
2 / Explore technical correct for clarifying language for the length the double quotes ("") and escape characters (for delimiters). / Jenni P / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
VII.Discussion of QPD, RTD and ADD repeating last field and implications for conformance (time permitting)
There was not time for this discussion.
VIII.Adjournment
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 AM CT.
QUARTER 2, Monday 14 September 2008
Joint with InM regarding the length proposal - See InM Minutes
QUARTER 3, Monday 17 January 2008
Topic: V2 Conformance: cardinality and optionality discussion (dynamic model - if time permits)
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Carnahan, Lisa / NIST /
Creaven, Don / VA /
Gebase, Len / NIST /
Lynton-Moll, Chris / CCeH /
Oemig, Frank / Agfa Healthcare /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Snelick, Robert / NIST /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / Cardinality and Optionality
5 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 1:50 PM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
Approved
III.Announcements
None
IV.Cardinality and Optionality
Frank wants some normative min/max lengths.
CQ did not
Separate document with informative min/max values
What do we want for Q4? What do we do to get Frank's approval discussed? Do we want to start Q4 with cardinality/Optionality? We need to agree here first.
562: Cardinality
563: Usage
564: Relationship between usage and cardinality
506: Length
Content is really for the application. Nothing to do with the messaging system.
V.Adjournment
Meeting adjourned at approximately 3:00 PM.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / AreaNone during San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM Mon Q3 session
QUARTER 4, Monday 17 January 2008
Topic: V2 Conformance: Joint with InM regarding the optionality and cardinality proposals - See InM Minutes
QUARTER 1: Tuesday, 15January 2008
Topic: V2 Conformance: further 2.7 proposals (continuation from Monday)
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Carnahan, Lisa / NIST /
Creaven, Don / VA /
Gebase, Len / NIST /
Oemig, Frank / Agfa Healthcare /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rock, Jason / GlobalSubmit /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Snelick, Robert / NIST /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / Selection of interim co-chair
5 / Review proposals that were accepted by InM Mon-Q4
6 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 9:05 AM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
Approved as modified
III.Announcements
None
IV.Selection of interim co-chair
Lisa Carnahan resigned her co-chair position after the cut-off date for official co-chair elections for this WGM. The co-chairs recommended Jason Rock be an interim co-chair pending election at the May WGM.
Vote
SEQ / Key / Motion / Moved/second / Y-N-A / CommentJason Rock as interim co-chair / Jenni/? / 7-0-0
V.Review proposals that were accepted by InM Mon-Q4
Discussed the desired end state:
- Keep length column in segment attribute table and data type table
- Some fields will have the lengths; most will not
- The Len column will be expressed as [min..max] values in those tables.
- The lengths that are in the segment attribute tables will be normative (can only be constrained according to the HL7 rules)
- Eliminate the back door (site and realm agreement)
Implementation profiles will require properly constrained lengths for all elements.
Compromise (for consideration with 2.7):
- Due to the "back door" for lengths, their normative status is a contradiction.
- Remove the length columns in the segment attribute tables (this had been previously approved by InM).
- Create a non-normative appendix with the existing max lengths from the segment attribute tables and, where available, suggested min/max lengths (appendix A of 2.6 is a good starting point for this).
- Implementation profiles will require properly constrained lengths for all elements.
Rationale: previous proposal for removing the length column was accepted
Rationale for having 'some' normative lengths: Along those same lines as some fields are optional while some are required, why can't we have some lengths that are normative (in the segment attribute table and the valid constraints in message profiles) and some are left to realm/site implementation (as documented in message profiles)?
There is a motion on the table at InM was something along the lines: Recommend removal of all field lengths from the segment attributes for non-simple data types.
Doesn't seem to be a time this WGM where this discussion can continue. InM free time (as of Mon-Q4) was Fri-Q1 (ICTC not available) and Thu-Q4 (where InM co-chairs weren't available).
VI.Adjournment
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 AM CT.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / AreaConfirm that new proposals can be submitted if there is a committee level 2 ballot. / Jenni P / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
Post Frank's e-mail (regarding the list of field length inconsistencies) to committee. / Jenni P / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
QUARTER 2: Tuesday, 15January 2008
Topic: V3: Implementation Guide Project
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Boone, Keith / GE Healthcare /
Creaven, Don / VA /
Harding, Richard / - /
Huang, Wendy / HL7 Canada /
Lynton-Moll, Chris / CCeH /
Oemig, Frank / Agfa Healthcare /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rock, Jason / GlobalSubmit /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Ryan, Sarah / Ockham Information Services LLC /
Spronk, Rene / Ringholm /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / Ballot Checklist proposal sponsorship
5 / Implementation Guide Project
6 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 11:09 AM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
Approved as modified
III.Announcements
None
IV.Ballot Checklist proposal sponsorship
V3 editing project had been started to do some cleanup of the V3 guides (V3 editing project). There were some issues regarding governance. RIM, vocabulary, and data types). Has an advisory group whose path is not totally in line with what the Board approved. Goal: improve the documentation so that the implementers can implement it. The advisory group felt there was needed some consistency in the domain content. This proposal is one item toward the goal. This is a checklist that would be reviewed by the ARB during their approval process. The group suggested that this be a project and that ICTC would be the sponsorship.
This may not be a good fit for conformance but the thinking was that this was for 'conformance to style guides'.
V.Implementation Guide Project Update
Because of resource issues, Keith and Patrick have had no time to help. Sarah does feel she is technically savvy enough to do this by herself. The project is valuable but, if the resources aren't available, maybe the project will have to be scrapped.
Primary Goal: to look at what is out there and define best practices for implementation guides
Subgoal: How vocabulary is dealt with
Collection of implementation guides is difficult.
Frank brought up the Germany implementation guide for implementation guides.
V3 implementation guide Wiki for the project:
Discussed the FDA implementation guide geared more for the developers. It was bottoms up (from examples to the models). The group brainstormed some recommended changes. Rene would like to see if there could be some funding from the Dutch contingent.
VI.Adjournment
Motion (Jenni P/Don C) at 12:15 PM CT.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / AreaNone during San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM Tue Q2 session
QUARTER 3: Tuesday, 15January 2008
Topic: V3: Projects
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Carnahan, Lisa / NIST /
McCay, Charlie / Ramsey Systems Ltd. /
Oemig, Frank / Agfa Healthcare /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rock, Jason / GlobalSubmit /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Ryan, Sarah / Ockham Information Services LLC /
Stevens Love, Helen / Canada Health InfoWay /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / DSTU testing / 60
5 / Case Studies planning / 15
6 / Committee management issues (agenda planning for May WGM) / 15
7 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 1:50 PM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
Approved as modified
III.Announcements
None
IV.DSTU testing
Reviewed project scope statement since this was approved prior to the Impl and Conf merger
Trying to give guidance: 1) for implementors that it is fit for use and stable enough to implement and 2) when you have enough knowledge to move past the DSTU period. Create artifacts needed to record that it meets the balloted business rules.
Action item: transform to the new project scope template (Jason)
Status: created document with thoughts and work projects. Action item: Jason will post to the list server. Has been talking with other committees. Have been hearing 2 approaches: 1) like user acceptance testing (the application needs to do what is expected to be done and 2) testing is completely outside of HL7 and we need to get feedback from implementors. Needs to get feedback. Canada InfoWay has defined a lot of this. Felt this was a good way forward.
One thing they came up with for this project, before going to DSTU, there has to be some level of expectation about the standards changing. It is stable for use. Talked about having a checklist. Are the requirements properly document? Quality verification? Has a test plan been created? This had to go before DSTU. Helen mentioned that, in Canada, they have a technical ballot quality criteria (still in draft). They have a stability statement of use to indicate the level of stability of the different artifacts. Not guaranteeing that the DSTU is completely stable.
The project team was interested in adding to the HDF quality criteria.
We discussed the Version 3 Publishing Facilitators Guide. That is the home of the 'ballot readiness'.
Test Plans should be referenced - they are not normative. How will it be tested? How was it tested?
Helen discussed InfoWay's testing processes. They don't let a vendor self-test. They look at the test approach/strategy.
Agreed on the test strategy prior to DSTU. Each implementation project will create a test plan to achieve the test strategy. As long as the test plan(s) conform to the strategy. Before going normative, you have to have evidence that the test plan was successfully executed that conforms to the test strategy.
Next step: put together the test strategy guidance.
V.Addition discussion about co-chairs
This item was not on the published or modified agenda.
Helen brought up the issue of the structure of the ICTC, in particular the division of V3 activities. With Charlie McCay's rumored resignation as co-chair, Helen has offered herself as a co-chair with the following provisions:
V3 only
Non-administration tasks
Cannot meet every week; every other week is acceptable
Has a lot of experience and support to offer for V3 conformance and implementation.
Next steps: the ICTC co-chairs need to meet and discuss division of duties and structure of meetings. Jenni will follow up with Charlie to verify his intentions and communicate co-chair election needs for the May WGM.
VI.Adjournment
Meeting adjourned approximately 3:00 PM CT.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / AreaTransform DSTU project scope to the new template / Jason R / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
Put together the test strategy guidance / Jason R / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
Post document with thoughts and work projects to the list server. / Jason R / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
Co-chairs to discuss duties and structures of meeting / co-chairs / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
Follow-up with HQ regarding co-chair elections at May WGM / Jenni P / Added San Antonio Jan 2008 WGM / Open
QUARTER 4: Tuesday, 15January 2008
Topic: V2.x: Tools
AttendanceName / Organization / eMail
Jolley, Mike / Utah Health Information Network /
Lynton-Moll, Chris / CCeH /
Martin, Michael / Clemson Livestock Poultry Health /
Puyenbroek, Jenni / SAIC on behalf of CDC /
Rontey, Peter / VA /
Snelick, Robert / NIST /
Agenda
# / Key / Description / Presenter / Action Needed / Time1 / Call to Order
2 / Approval of Agenda
3 / Announcements
4 / AHML Update / Lynton-Moll / 10
5 / Discuss new message profile functionality / 20-30
6 / MWB / Peter Rontey / 20-30
7 / Adjournment
I.Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by the chair, Frank Oemig, at 3:39 PM CT. Jennifer Puyenbroek was the scribe. Quorum attained.
II.Agenda approval
Approved as modified
III.Announcements
None
IV.AHML Update
Chris Lynton-Moll presented. V2.4 testing completed in development, ready to be moved into production the next couple months. Hope to have v2.5 and 2.6 later this year. Expecting more funding this year. Increased overseas usage. Egypt last year. 385 registered users. 32 countries. 200 users from Australia.
2 testing facilities. One is an online testing service (currently free). Login, select a profile (2.3.1 standard or specific national/realm Australian profiles). Notifiable diseases is another more constrained profile as well. There is also a service: a vendor sends a number of messages against a profile and, if they pass (they send the right messages with the right content for the test scenario), they get a certificate. There is a national accreditation for this service.
Want to add and end-to-end system testing for v2 yet this year. This is about messaging.
Plan to add checking ability of systems to display results correctly from V2 messages.
Laboratory systems - Australian Standard 4700.2 Orders and Results HL7 messaging. Certification required from Jan 2010
Initial work on setting up V3 testing service
V.Discuss new message profile functionality
Rob discussed this proposed Version 2.8 Conformance Roadmap
New profiling concepts
Referencing table definitions. What about dynamic binding of vocabulary.
Profiling individual field occurrence defintions
Provisions for linking a regular expression with an element (this may already be there in v2.6)
Profiling query messages (we have the dynamic model for it but not all the query features)
Specifying an HL7 version at the segment level (for pre-adopting from a more recent version)
Profile version identifier
Example test messages (the 2.7 message profile spec allows for test annotations; action item: this is not the DTD and schema; Jenni to request a technical correction)
Cleanup and other improvements
Update conformance profile schema (keep current and available)
Validation Methodology
Comparing sending/receiving profiles pair
Profile validation - added requirements, might be part of comparing compatible profiles
Purpose
Aligning standard to common practice and existing tooling (e.g., table references)
Development of conformance requirements to support tooling efforts
VI.MWB
New Release: 6.7
Tutorial tomorrow
Action item: Pete to upload to the Conformance documents web page
60+ changes (listed in the readme file)
Important enhancements:
Help has been extended (added 3 more articles; use of value sets, exporting, and user defined reports)
Export features: Export to HL7 profile is a menu option. Export Profile Package, Export Profile Package to a zip file (requires one-time or infrequent setup).
Value Sets and Test Message generation
There is a values repository to assist in creating values for a semantically correct message. The messages will be unique due to the combination of permutations. There is an option to randomly pick from the value set versus the values repository. If we want to test the message into the application.
VII.Adjournment
Motion (Pete/Chris) at 5:00 PM CT.
Pete continued to show the MWB enhancements.
Action Items
# / Description / Who / History/Update / Status / AreaPete to upload the new MWB to the Conformance documents web page / Pete R / Added San Antonio Jan WGM / Open
Request a technical correction to the DTD and schema regarding test annotations / Jenni P / Added San Antonio Jan WGM / Open
QUARTER 1: Wednesday 16January 2008