ELECTRONICS
JUNE 2010
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
JUNE 21-24, 2010
Grand Copthorne Waterfront Hotel
Singapore
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
Monday June 21 to Thursday june 24, 2010
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED
1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Electronics Task Group (ETG) was called to order at 9:00 a.m., 21-Jun-10.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME / COMPANY NAMEDavid / Barnes / Honeywell Aerospace
Bob / Cashman / Parker Aerospace
Yee Shuan / Ku / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Eric / Lacourt / Thales
* / Nathalie / LeFevre / SAFRAN
* / Nathalie / Le Fran / Airbus
Ken / Massiello / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Scott / Meyer / Goodrich Corporation
* / Philippe / Pons / Airbus / Chairperson
* / Richard / Rowe / Honeywell Aerospace
* / Richard / Rumas / Honeywell Aerospace / Secretary
* / Suzanne / Steketee / Ball Aerospace & Technologies
* / Barbara / Waller / Raytheon Company
* / Mark / Whalley / Goodrich Corporation
* / Dewey / Whittaker / Honeywell Aerospace / Vice Chairperson
Purushothaman / Vijayanand / Goodrich Corporation
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME / COMPANY NAME* / Cristiano / Bazzi / Somacis
Weay Weay / Wong / Advanced Manufacturing Corp Pte Ltd
Rudi / Wawan / Advanced Manufacturing Corp Pte Ltd
Neo / Teow Guan / Sanmina SCI
PRI Staff Present
Jim / Bennett1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes / Chairperson Report – OPEN
Philippe Pons presented the Chairperson’s Report. This included a review of the Code of Ethics and Conflicts of Interest.
Scott Meyer was elected Timekeeper.
Richard Rumas was elected as Secretary.
Motion made by Scott Meyer and seconded by Suzanne Steketee to approve the February 2010 Rome minutes as written. Motion Passed
Barbara Waller from Raytheon has met the requirements to become a voting member.
Motion made by Dewey Whittaker and seconded by Mark Whalley to approve Barbara Waller from Raytheon as a new subscriber voting member. Motion Passed
1.3 AQS Liaison Presentation
Dewey Whittaker gave a presentation regarding the role of the AQS Liaison.
2.0 SUBSCRIBING USER PRIME DISCUSSION – CLOSED
2.1 Auditor Interview Process
The ETG agreed to hold WebEx for interviewing auditor candidates to utilize instant message for synchronizing and closing the interview early (if necessary). The last auditor candidate interview could have been cut short.
2.2 TG Leadership
Discussed the need for a new Vice Chair for the next Chair rotation (February 2011). The Vice Chair typically becomes Chair. Philippe Pons will be chair until February 2011. Dewey Whittaker will be Chair from February 2011 to February 2013. Regional representation needs to be a consideration. Intent is to identify position for the October meeting. Scott Meyer from Goodrich volunteered.
ACTION ITEM: ETG members to go back to their companies to discuss and get approval to come forward as candidates for Vice Chair. (DUE DATE: 30-Aug-10)
Discussion was diverted to ETG attendance and attracting new members. Rich Rowe brought up fact that the ETG missed the opportunity in Singapore to attract some new members.
ACTION ITEM: PRI / NMC to obtain commitment from the NMC regarding Subscribers involvement in Electronics. Bring back past members and bring in new members. Address imbalances in TG by bringing in subscriber members who are not participating in the ETG. (DUE DATE: 18-Oct-10)
2.3 Staff Engineer Visit – Audit #136676:
Jim Bennett witnessed AC7119 audit performed in May 2010, audit #136676. A presentation was given to the Subscribers identifying some potential areas of improvement to the audit process. Due to the nature of the information, the presentation is not attached in the minutes. Key points and recommendations to note:
a) Need a consistent approach to providing suppliers the same information regarding the Nadcap process during the audit (initial and close out meetings).
b) Remove AQS / procedures questions where possible.
c) Consider merging some of the procedural / compliance questions together.
d) Further consolidation of questions recommended to ensure the correct questions are asked and appropriate investigations can be performed by the auditor during the audit.
e) Handbooks need to be up to date.
f) Consider matrix to cover some processes (see specific comment below).
These items will be considered when the ETG look at the checklist layout.
Jim Bennett has worked on creating a presentation pack that can be used for the initial meeting and the close out meeting during the audit.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send out presentation to ETG for comment. (DUE DATE: 30-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: ETG will review presentation and provide comment. (DUE DATE: 13-Aug-10)
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to add this presentation (after any updates) to Auditor Training. (DUE DATE: 18-Oct-10)
Side Discussion on other audits / suppliers pre-assessment is key. Some suppliers are scrambling so much that they don’t prepare appropriately. Supplier symposium can help in this regard.
Discussion ensued regarding the use of a matrix to address when a compliance job is witnessed or not for the various processes in the checklist. A suggestion was made to use this matrix so key processes are not missed on more than two consecutive audits. Technically the checklists require as many jobs as to complete the scope of the audit. This compliance matrix won’t work for this reason.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to review each checklist and determine for each compliance question whether a job is required to be witnessed, rather than training paperwork, test documentation, etc.
(DUE DATE: 30-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-Team leads to review information. (DUE DATE: 13-Aug-10)
ACTION ITEM: SE to add this information after review to Auditor Training. (DUE DATE: 18-Oct-10)
2.4 NCR classifications
Discussed the classifications of NCR’s and the consistent approach; however no policy other than what was already defined in the handbook for AC7120, was addressed. Jim Bennett also stated that no changes to the classification system will be made until the proposed 1-5 numbered system is addressed.
ACTION ITEM: SE to add NCR classification to Auditor Training. (DUE DATE: 01-Jul-10)
2.5 Audit Observations
Review and disposition audit observations (i.e. not findings). Disposition examples: add Handbook clarification, add new audit question, etc. One item was addressed for AC7121 and is being addressed in the proposed modified checklist.
2.6 Supplier Merit Discussion
Discussion ensued regarding the possibility of having different merit criteria since there are so many questions on the checklist. Jim Bennett indicated No as this was addressed with NMC when Supplier Merit was being standardized. Discussion also included escapes, product impact, and severity of NCR’s. Note: 2/3rds majority required to accept audits (i.e. unanimous not required).
ETG understands it is a lot of work to make a change but would like to have it discussed.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to add agenda item for October meeting to discuss Supplier Merit. (DUE DATE:
01-Jul-10)
2.7 Outsourced Hardware
If a supplier outsources a process (say XRF for AC7120), does the sub-tier supplier who provides the process (XRF testing) required to get Nadcap? If a Subscriber mandates Nadcap, then Yes. The tier supplier would manage the accreditation. This would however be managed by the subscriber and flowed down accordingly.
3.0 PRI REPORT – OPEN
Jim Bennett gave the new member presentation to the group based on the number of new individuals present at the meeting.
ACTION ITEM: SE to include New Member Presentation to standard agenda. (DUE DATE: 09-Jul-10)
Jim Bennett gave the PRI Report.
Question was asked regarding RCCA training availability for suppliers to reduce cycle count on NCR’s. This has been added to general supplier symposium presentation.
NIP 4-01 released for the Ballot process. This was discussed in detail to clarify what the process is for making editorial changes. This was a concern of this group, following an incident regarding editorial changes made to an older checklist.
Motion made by Suzanne and seconded by Scott to approve SE to make editorial changes per new NIP 4-01 process.
Motion Passed
4.0 RAIL REVIEW – OPEN
RAIL items were reviewed.
Supplier Symposium actions still open. This will be discussed this week.
Hamilton Sundstrand checklist inclusion into AC7119 closed but no incorporation.
Push back Repair / Rework checklist action to December 2010 (priority 3).
Discussion on NCR data (including VOIDED NCR’s): what is the due date? It is meant to be reviewed on an ongoing basis (i.e. every meeting). Due date changed to 23-Oct-10 (before next meeting).
AC7120 update to Rev B: should include new revisions of IPC-A-610E and J-STD-001E. Changed due date to 31-Jul-10 to incorporate as soon as possible.
Question “Is the Supplier capable of & able to demonstrate compliance to the requirements of IPCxxx class 3?” AC7120 (rev. B) has to be modified to reflect AC7121 & AC7119/3 where this type of question has been removed.
ACTION ITEM: AC7120 sub team to modify AC7120 to remove “Is the Supplier capable of & able to demonstrate compliance to the requirements of….”. (DUE DATE: 30-Jun-10)
Auditor consistency for initial vs. reaccreditation audits. Do we still need this action? Long discussion held, no resolution. PRI Staff tabled action.
PRI will be sending out regular emails following up on RAIL items, to ensure quick closure and reduce discussion time at meetings.
5.0 AC7120 – OPEN
Reviewed the proposed changes spreadsheet for the rev B of AC7120.
Discussion ensued regarding ESD / 30% RH proposed change from Natalie LeFevre & Philippe Pons.
Motion made by Richard Rumas and seconded by Suzanne Steketee to not accept proposal. Motion Passed
Suzanne Steketee asked about lack of RAIL items for Space checklists. She is specifically interested in AC7120 but also applies to AC7121 (when IPC/WHMA-A-620AS is released).
ACTION ITEM: SE to add Space Checklist to RAIL and Priority List (3). (DUE DATE: 30-Jun-10)
AC7120 Consolidation Action regarding environmental controls discussed. The proposed format that Suzanne Steketee and Richard Rowe presented was accepted in principal for which procedural questions will be consolidated but not compliance.
ACTION ITEM: Richard Rowe and Suzanne Steketee to continue action to complete consolidation activity. (DUE DATE: 18-Oct-10)
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to schedule AC7120 Teleconference for: 24-Aug-10, 31-Aug-10. (DUE DATE: 16-Jul-10)
6.0 AC7121 – OPEN
Review final comments submitted from sub-team lead Richard Rumas. Discussion ensued regarding training based on the wording in paragraph 6.1.
ACTION ITEM: Richard to put together proposal for training to be discussed at next teleconference call. Email out for comments. (DUE DATE: 16-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: SE to schedule ETG teleconference call to review training proposal for 28-Jul-10. (DUE DATE: 16-Jul-10)
Discussion ensued on adding process control for solder cup depth. It was proposed to add a question and include an audit note. This was captured in comments spreadsheet.
Motion made by Richard Rumas and seconded by Mark Whalley to approve proposal and update audit note based on discussion.
Motion Passed
ACTION ITEM: Richard Rumas to complete all outstanding clean-up actions on draft AC7121 Rev A. (DUE DATE: 16-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team to perform a final review of the checklist prior to balloting. (DUE DATE: 30-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to ballot new Revision A of AC7121. (DUE DATE: 06-Aug-10)
7.0 SUPPLIER SYMPOSIUM – OPEN
Interim discussion points addressed following the NMC meeting held. Identified the issue of closed meetings and supplier involvement. Jim Bennett likes the closed meetings to be on Mondays; however, Supplier Orientation is always on Tuesday morning. Supplier scheduling for travel is a big consideration. Dewey Whittaker brought up suppliers changing procedures just prior to the audit, wasting auditor’s time going reviewing the new / changed procedures. It is not perceived to be a major problem with Electronics as the checklists only state a list of procedures is expected, not the actual procedures. Are certain auditors asking for more documentation than what is required of the checklist? Also discussed lack of participation with Subscribing Users and the NMC’s responsibility to promote this.
ETG agreed that a Supplier Symposium will be held during the October 2010 meeting in Pittsburgh. Monday was agreed to be the most appropriate day (all day) to hold this.
Motion made by Mark Whalley and seconded by Richard Rumas to hold a one day symposium in October (Pittsburgh) on Monday 18-Oct-10.
Motion Passed
ACTION ITEM: ETG members to invite their suppliers to the symposium – using newsletter and then following up. (DUE DATE: 07-Sep-10)
Also discussed future symposiums at European locations in 2011 since some subscribers have majority supply bases in Europe.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to add action item for European Supplier Symposium to Pittsburgh agenda. (DUE DATE: 09-Jul-10)
Proposed agenda presented by Jim Bennett. Changes made following various discussions. Presenters and approximate times allocated. Jim Bennett expects Subscribing Users to attend to field any potential questions.
Christiano Bazzi agreed to give presentation on supplier perspective.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to provide Christiano Bazzi with previous presentations to give examples on the type of presentation to give for the supplier symposium. (DUE DATE: 16-Jul-10)
Richard Rumas presented the AC7121 specific slides.
Mark Whalley presented the AC7120 specific slides. Some of the general information presented in a different way to the PRI general slides. SE will take these into consideration for addition to the general presentations.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send out both AC7120 and AC7121 presentations to the ETG for review and comments. (DUE DATE: 06-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send out general supplier symposium presentations for comment. (DUE DATE: 01-Jul-10)
ACTION ITEM: Dewey and sub-team to complete AC7119 presentation and make ready for ETG review. (DUE DATE: 09-Jul-10)