FSF Cymru/FAW meeting Aberystwyth November 1st, 2017 6.30 pm Start
Attendees
Paul Corkrey, Kieran Jones FSF Cymru, Adam Jones, Tommie Collins, FSF Gogledd Cymru, Colin Lewis, Allyson Rees, supporters. Dave Dulin Wonky Sheep, Mark Evans, Ben Donovan Alex Eagle,and Lucy Mason FAW.
Wayne Palmer Welsh Police, Wayne Nash FAW Security officer, Tomos Nash FAW stewarding Rhys Lewis, Sion England Owen Roberts Young, and Steffan Davies Aberystwyth Welsh supporters.
Minutes
Agenda
Correspondence
Arriva trains
North Wales /FSF Gogledd Cymru
France
Moldova
Georgia
Buses at away games
Ireland/Austria home feedback will come under security and stewarding
Tickets and Membership
Security and stewarding
Programmes
Possible friendly in China
UEFA Nations League
Aberystwyth and West Wales
Any other business
Correspondence
We have had high level of correspondence via, social media and emails, this will be incorporated into the agenda as each topic arises.
Arriva trains
There were many e mails about the North Wales train service, but the general theme was summed up by this correspondence
Positives:
There was one
Price was reasonable
Departed from Ninian Park
Negatives:
Had to wait on platform for far too long - if it had been raining we would have been soaked.
Train was a local commuter totally unsuited to long distance travel. So uncomfortable.
No refreshments
Regards the ticket checks -there were none, I missed out on the initial allocation and was worried - no need to have been, any Tom, Dick and Harry could have caught the train.
Also, the arrangements for the outbound journey were poor - we caught the 11:25 from Junction and it was standing room only before Rhyl all the way to Cardiff. Not surprising really when all you get is a 2-car train. Refreshment trolley could not move and there were so many people that it was impossible to get to the toilet for some people.
I think the biggest problem with this service was the expectation set from the Austria game, there were no complaints from that trip as everything was spot on, and to go from that to the poor conditions for the Ireland game hasn’t been great particularly as there was no change in cost.
Unfortunately, nobody from Arriva trains could attend the meeting but they did respond to some of the observations and have promised to consider other complaints. They also reiterated that even if there is a change in train service providers, ATW look forward to planning more special trains in conjunction with FAW and FSF Cymru for future Home qualifying and Nations League matches.”
They explained that trains down to south Wales were full and crowded because only a small number of fans had pre-booked guaranteedseats and that is something that needs to be looked at.
They also said that there were guards on the train home, but they had not reported any problems with ticket less fans. The poor quality of the train was due to the fact they had to change the train due to such big demand and therefore the extra carriages were not as good as they should have been, again this was because of trying to help as many fans as possible to have access to the trains after the initial allocation sold out in just one hour. They also apologised for the lack of refreshments for the journey, they promised to consider all the problems and hopefully improve the service in the future.
North Wales FSF Gogledd Cymru
Again, the issue of the friendly game against a team up in Wrexham has been brought up and we were asked to discuss this tonight.
Mark Evans explained that the Racecourse stadium was not up to international standard, with the Yale Stand needing updating, including the changing rooms, but the FAW are not ruling future games out, especially if the stadium was updated and improved.
There are some important under 21 games due to be played in Bangor this month and there are still limited tickets available for the crucial games on November 10th and 14th both kick off at 6 pm and adult tickets are just £5
Also, good news about the Colliers Park training facilities in Gresford where the FAW will be investing money and improving facilities as part of the legacy of the EURO 16 campaign
France update
There have been pre-match visits last weekend and to date we have sold 2,200 tickets for this game and we will be housed in section B in the middle and lower tiers of the stadium.
The security officer reported that It is understandable that after the terrorist attack in Manchester, and given that as part of the November 2015 attacks in Paris the Stade de France was itself targeted by terrorists, security is going to be very tight around this fixture. Searches will take place and clearly this procedure will take time, and as is almost always the case these days, it is recommended that we turn up early to ensure that we all get in before kick-off. The stadium gates will open two hours before kick-off, at 19:00. There will be alcohol on sale inside the stadium, and like with most grounds these days, there is a no smoking rule in force. There is limited room to display flags within the ground, and for security reasons there will be no facility for early access to the ground to hang them, so if you want to ensure a good spot for your flag, it’d be best to be among the first ones in at 19:00. Under French law, the sale of tickets on the black market is a criminal offence, but the purchase is not.
Full details will be available in the on line FSF booklets and in the booklets given out during the trip.
There will be at pre-match Gol party at the Belushi bar to the left of the main Gard de Nord station and that is also the area we recommend for Welsh fans during the trip.
Moldova and Georgia updates
Both games went very well with wins at both and although busy for the Fan Embassy with some fan injuries and hospital visits we are happy to report there were no arrests at either game. There was some unrest in the Tbilisi stadium amongst some Welsh fans and stewards but that has now been resolved amicably
Buses at away games
Buses have been provided and organised by the FAW after discussions with the FSF at previous meetings and believe that they have been a great success, especially in Serbia and Moldova and there has been excellent feedback from members both to the FAW and FSF and although they consider correspondence like the message below and others on social media, they believe that buses are a good thing and a service to members at some away countries and will continue to provide the service. Regards to the costs, the FAW have said they will subsidize the buses so they will always only be a small surcharge for the fans to pay. Buses will not be put on in France or anywhere where public transport is the best option although that was the case in Georgia. These buses will never be compulsory and will not be put on for every game further details will on the terms and conditions of the ticket section on the FAW web site in advance of the next campaign.
Dear Sirs
It is a fact that Welsh fans have been a credit and have recently received an award from UEFA in Euro 2016 for both our passion and behaviour.
I am therefore unclear why such travel arrangements should be in place, and although we are free to make our own arrangements, it is clearly unfair to add these additional costs onto the match ticket prices.
The Wales Supporters booklet indicated that buses were required in Georgia because of the Risk Assessment that was carried out.
It was hardly challenging to get to/from Stadiums in both Moldova or Georgia.
As the Wales FA will be one of the parties attending the meeting in Aberystwyth on November 1st could this be added to the agenda.
Buses are an excellent idea for those that need them, but it cannot be cost effective to hire coaches for those fans who will not need them.
What if something similar was implemented in say Scandinavia? This e mail has been sent on behalf of a section of supporters as we feel the cost would not be minimal as it is now.
Tickets and Membership
The FSF stated that we were very supportive of the ticket pricing for tournaments and for the costings of membership, we ask that if any increase was necessary then it could be minimal and based on keeping good crowd growth and excellent member numbers.
Lucy M said “membership, ticket prices and ticket price categories are all under review at present.
Some of the other correspondence is included below with answers from the FAW.
Could away ticket information be given out earlier to avoid fans booking up and then failing to meet the ticket criteria.
Lucy M said that the FAW understand the issue and always try to get the information out at the earliest point but until the ticket allocations are agreed the criteria cannot be calculated or decided.
Would it be possible for current tournament ticket holders to have the option to keep their current seats?
Lucy M
Yes, but there would be time restraints put on that.
Will the away membership scheme be reviewed mid tournament, and do you expect any changes for instance away tickets having to be collected at the away venues to stop ticket “harvesting “or could you be more aggressive with random checks for instance increase them and make the punishment more realistic from the next campaign? When do you expect to close and then re-open the new membership?
Lucy M
Membership is always reviewed but the FAW believe it is working well, they do not want to introduce ticket collections at away venues if possible, but are always monitoring things. Membership will close shortly for the 2018 WC and reopen early March for the Euro 2020
Ticket touts were reported to the police outside the stadium and the officers approached said there was nothing they could do because it is private property.
Wayne Palmer from the police explained that was a mistake and would be brought up in future pre match police briefings, ticket toting is against the law and something the police can deal with.
Friendly game prices and going forward to next campaign
- Prices set to watch Wales for the friendlies, France and Panama were reflected as good value for money to watch the likes of Ramsey, Bale, Allen and co, although there have been complaints at the £20 cost of the Panama ticket just over 7,000 tickets have been sold to date
- In the next campaign it was noted that there would be separate tickets for the Nations League and the Euro 2020 qualifiers, the FAW are expecting a possible increase in price but more likely different categories for certain parts of the stadium.
- In the recent re opening of membership there was an increase of 100 additional new fans on the database. There are well over 30,000 members now.
Security and stewarding
We have correspondence about this
The stewarding at the Ireland game come under close scrutineering, several complaints of ignoring Wales fans and allowing the Irish fans the benefit in a few disputes were mentioned.
WN said all the stewards are trained and have a radio to contact their supervisors, one of the complaints was that they refused to contact their supervisors.
There were some Irish fans in Welsh areas and several were ejected, and tickets confiscated. There were also attempts to buy tickets online but many of these were stopped by the ticket staff at source.
These tickets lead back to TT tickets sold by Welsh fans.
I must say that most of Problems in the stadia were from Welsh fans kicking off because of Irish fans presence - especially later in the game, due to the score.
We witnessed very little bad behaviour from Irish fans, but their presence was difficult.
The policy on the night was that we did not allow Irish fans in the Canton and re-seated them.
The amount of contact we received in other areas meant that we allowed staff to make allowances.
There was a significant number in the lower grandstand, but they were all allocated tickets for the Irish FA which normally go to players friends and families.
There were quite a few in the Level 4 area but that can be led back to the Sponsors who decided to offer tickets to Irish fans which is their prerogative. Really in such an important match the Irish fans tried everything to get into the stadium but as there was real history of trouble between the two sets of fans and in Dublin there were Welsh fans in all parts of the stadium but not as noticeable as the Irish in the CCS.
- Austria home game was brought up with correspondence on excessive queuing around the ground, lots missing the kick off. WN said 2,200 fans were still at the turnstiles at KO. This was due to a very late walk up to the ground, some fans on the CCTV were identified coming to the turnstiles at 7.40pm and expecting to get in on time.
- The Ireland game entry into the stadium went much smoother despite some complaints in the correspondence the actual figures are as follows:
The announced figure was 32,711 whilst the actual final monitor figure was 31,684
The stadium loaded very well and peaked at about 500 per minute.
KO = 31,054
KO-15 = 30,004
KO-30 = 26,486
KO-45 = 19,001
KO-60 = 11,691
KO-75 = 5,679
KO-90 = 2,518
Search procedure is decided by Stadium Management and SWP.
A random search with all bags was the decision for this fixture – it was varied due to smoke bombs in Canton but relaxed again later.
- Flags around CCS during Wales games removed. WN explained that any flag in front / blocking any other flag will be removed. All sponsors on show at a Wales game are FAW sponsors not Cardiff City.
- There were a few emails raised regarding the area of the stewards are from when Wales travel, it was assumed that all were Cardiff City stewards, WN said that there were a few from North Wales and Swansea but none from Newport but they have asked Newport to supply them
- Club rivalry was again starting to re appear and some fans were feeling aggrieved and dis satisfied with the way this is dealt with.
The FAW, police and security all agreed that this was totally unacceptable and would not be tolerated, any fans found to be guilty of this will be dealt with and fans are encouraged to report all incidents to stewards.
Programmes More correspondence
The digital programme again was announced, however going forward the FAW agreed there would be a reformat of the programme to A5 size and that there would be hard copies of programmes available for the home games. They will look to improve the design and content and may even decide to make them free of charge and provided for everyone possibly on entry to the stadium.
Possible friendly in China update
- It was announced that China has asked Wales to participate in the China Super Cup in March next year, the FAW have accepted the invitation subject to FIFA approval. News on this will be released to the fans as soon as possible but the FAW advised fans not to book anything until things are confirmed, there are still a few hurdles to cross.
- The venue will be Nanning, there are no direct flights and they are expensive as are visas for China
12.UEFA Nations League update on this
- There will be four Nations League games in 2018, two in September and two in October and these are not friendlies and are very important games where promotion and relegation are involved and the opportunity to qualify for the finals. The will be two friendlies though in November 2018 possibly home and away.
13.Aberystwyth and West Wales anything members want to discuss that concerns them not already discussed in meeting
- It was brought up that a coach from the Aberystwyth area could be looked at, the FAW offered to look at the viability and help setting one up for 2018.
Any other business
- The donations from Welsh fans for Gol Serbia,Moldova and Georgia now exceed £3,250.00. from left over currency. A fantastic initiative and effort by the fans.
- The work that Gol do in all our different away trips was highly praised by everyone at the meeting.
- Friendlies: It was announced that Wales are looking at extra friendly games from May 27th to end of June 2018.
- News on the new kit will be announced very shortly including prices and dates it will go on sale
- Football related Clothing for Women was raised, it was mentioned that Haley from “feWales “had been doing some work with the FAW and had an online business which specialised in this. Check out her web site
- Sincere thanks were passed onto Lucy and her team for managing all the tickets for the Welsh fans.
- FSF Gogledd asked if it would be possible to produce the printed Fan embassy booklets in the Welsh language, it was explained that financial restraints prevent this happening but the FAW said they will consider possible solutions for the future publications.
- The Aberystwyth contingent commentated about the fact that some pubs in Cardiff including the Gatekeeper, still refuse entry to Welsh football fans wearing colours.
The police said they would take this up with the licencing authority in Cardiff and report back if there are any plans by Cardiff pubs to ban fans at future games.