MINUTES OF NAWRA MEETING HELD ON
FRIDAY 12TH MARCH 2004 IN LONDONPresent
Mike Shermer
/Kings Lynn & West Norfolk Borough Council
Keith Spencer
/RNID
Sarah Campbell
/CPAG
Paula Twigg
/CPAG
Julie Rudd
/Eastbourne CAB
Karen Groves
/Eastbourne CAB
Suzanne Campbell
/City of Edinburgh WRU
Liz Vivyan
/Notts WRS
Sally Marshall
/Notts WRS
Paul Turnbull
/Warks. WRAS
Ruth Tindley
/Corby CAB
Cathy Cunningham
/Essex CC Benefits Team
Linda Thomas
/NDCS
Sonia Duncan
/Leicester CC Welfare & Employment Advice
Liz Knowles
/Staffs. SS
Jenny Perry
/Staffs. SS
Eleri Polakowsk
/Conwy SS
Mandy Noquet
/Conwy SS
Mark Perlic
/Wolverhampton WR
David Beckett
/BTU
Tim Law
/Sandwell CAB
Janet Elphastone
/Greenwich, LB
Anne
/Hounslow, LB
Rob Jenkins
/Stockport WRU
Hannah Marro
/Wakefield MDC
Andy Campbell
/West Kent SSD
Andy Pennington
/SLAM
Barry Griffiths
/Doncaster BAU
Chris Orr
/Glasgow CC
Ruth Hession
/Swansea WRU
Berni Ashford
/Suffolk CC WRU
Graham Bazley
/East Bristol Advice Centre
Jim McKenny
/Kirklees MC WR
Paul Codd
/YPAT Scunthorpe
Marian Nyman
/Kent CC
Julia Harris
/Barnet Council
Val McKenzie
/Leeds CC WBU
Alban Hawksworth
/Age Concern England
Khalid Rashid
/Redbridge, LB
Cathy Gowenlock
/Neath Port Talbot WRU
John Ball
/Family HA
Alan Markey
/Citizens Advice SSU
David Schoon
/Haringey, LB
Nel Coles
/Swansea WRU
Adrian Morgan
/Swansea WRU
Samantha Daniels /Sanctuary HA
Gareth Morgan /Ferret
Patrick Hill
/Bolton Welfare Rights Service
Andy Platt
/WERAS Leicester
David Bradford
/Norfolk CC WR
Gilli Drier
/Croydon, LB
Judy Stager
/Neath Mind
Jack Sklar
/William Sutton Trust
Alison Aisbitt
/Sunderland WRS
Sue Holman
/Middlesbrough WRU
Julie Burton
/Durham WR
Uma Gupta
/Greenwich WR
Apologies
Neil Bateman; Gillian Manning – Mutual Benefit Training; Paul Neave – Flintshire CC; Tamara Moreau – Colchester BC; Robbie Spence – Essex CC; Phil Hanns – Durham WR.
Welcome
Keith Spencer from RNID welcomed members to the meeting.
Minutes of Last Meeting
Amendment to Paul Neave’s comment in the Information Exchange:
· HB/CTB linked to Tax Credits not young people as stated in the minutes.
Gillian Manning’s comment in the Information Exchange on TC overpayments – that when working stops WTC should stop – generated a discussion and the following points were raised:
· Stopping work is not a change of circumstances that has to be reported and therefore it doesn’t always follow that payment should stop.
· If getting WTC via employer then payment will stop.
· Problem seems to be with claimants notifying the IR that have stopped work and the IR fail to action the notification for some time and this results in an overpayment.
· Welfare Rights Workers should be raising the issue of overpayments with the IR – should this be an issue NAWRA takes up?
· Steering group can consider this.
· CPAG pointed out that they have been lobbying on this issue as have Citizens Advice. CPAG are looking for test cases on this issue.
· No right of appeal against overpayment recovery.
· CPAG stated contact has been made with IR concerning this issue.
· CPAG mentioned its Tax Credits Monitoring network. Details are on CPAG website. Members send in feedback on cases and this is used to lobby for change. Members are sent a quarterly update, which contains a summary of the feedback.
· Manchester WRS requesting workshops facilitated by IR operations instead of IR managers.
· IR don’t keep claim forms, forms are scanned - picking up information in the boxes - then destroyed, what are the legal implications of this, especially for cases that go to appeal?
· Award letters are very poor and don’t give a full breakdown of entitlement
· IR have calculator on website
· One suggestion was that the IR provide a breakdown of how the award has been calculated on CD to advisers.
· TC entitlement affects HB etc.
· Award and amount received differ.
· New Deal and Welfare-to-Work implications.
· Suggestion: as tax credits seems to be very topical it might be wise to have a recurring TC workshop at the next few NAWRA meetings otherwise there is a danger that information exchange will be dominated by tax credits discussions and there are other issue to discuss.
Please monitor and report on the TC issue.
Steering Group Report
Alan Markey summarised last meeting in Bolton last month.
· Press release in March’s issue of Advisor.
· There will be press at the Blackpool meeting in June as this meeting will be a vehicle for a bit of NAWRA relaunch.
· A questionnaire for members is being drafted.
· There will be a regular, bi-annual Steering Group meeting.
· Raise issues with Regional Steering Group representative.
· East Midland’s representative is Andy Platt, updated contact list attached.
· Steering group members are putting themselves up for re-election. Offers to stand/nominations at the Blackpool meeting, election application form attached.
· Workshop ideas: Role of Welfare Rights Advisors.
· NAWRA now on Rightsnet http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/cgi-bin/publisher/display.cgi?1636-2104-18903+swopshop
· Anyone attending a NAWRA meeting who is not already a member will be sent a membership joining pack.
· Welfare Rights groups’ please contact Steering Group Regional rep. to notify the details of your organisation.
· DWP has asked for a rep. for policy working groups. SG now have a presence on most of these, feedback could be added to Rightsnet.
Information Exchange
Via email:
Tamara Moreau (Colchester CC)
It has been a cause of great concern in our area by agencies, and was raised at our last DWP liaison meeting. We are now very concerned at the lack of face-to-face services for pensioners. When the Pension Service was first established it was indicated that pensioners who were unable to access the service by phone, could receive a home visit or attend one of the local 'surgeries' set up in the town. It would now seem that this isn't happening and resources are being channelled elsewhere and surgeries are closing. There are serious problems with verification. Our local Age Concern have offered their facilities, including free use of their photocopier, but this offer does not appear to have been taken up. We seem to be getting nowhere fast and people of 60 and over in our area are receiving a worse service than previously under the old system. There is also an increasing number of Pension Credit claims being incorrectly assessed, e.g. failure to award SDP. The regional call centre consistently gives out incorrect information and advice.
Paula Twigg (CPAG)
· Quids for Kids conference 26th April in London at the ALG Office
· Holding a seminar 18th March 1 – 4.30pm LGA Westminster to mark the 5th anniversary of the pledge to eradicate child poverty.
Bernie Ashford (Suffolk CC)
Good news! Commissioner decision: people on HB going into residential care should now be able to get HB during the four week gap
Nel Coles (Swansea WR)
PC & Residential care: seems that the severe disability additional amount of pension credit is not payable when one member of a couple goes into residential care. This was not a problem with IS as the applicable amount was split.
Kathy (Essex CC)
Quids for Kids in February: immense interest, widespread, successful. Emma Knights attended.
Sam (Sanctuary)
Info request about supplement for elderly to cover housing costs.
Paddy (Bolton WR)
· North West WRU staff member concerned that his employer was considering moving WRU to the HB/CTB department. Info requested of anyone’s experience in this kind of situation.
· Habitual residence test, any case law?
· Problem locally of HB overpayments being recovered when the overpayment is under appeal.
Rob Jenkins (Stockport WRU)
Richard Drabble has made comments on above issue, viewable on Rightsnet.
Chris Orr (Glasgow CC)
· There is an HB circular that points out that where an overpayment is under appeal the LA should not be recovering it. Advisers should complain to the local government Ombudsman.
· England & Wales must follow complaints procedure first, within reasonable time – four weeks – then ombudsman.
· Report on delays in HB appeals being heard are on the English Ombudsman website.
Keith Spencer (RNID)
Is a member of DWP standards group discussing issues: MAP – modernising appeals programme. Judge Harris is aware of problem but little can be done by TAS as the problem is with the LA.
Sam (Sanctuary)
Average waiting time is six to eight months for HB appeals, info request of any cases.
500 HB appeals nationally in the third quarter of 2003, this is extremely low. Suggestion: pressure TAS to go ahead without a submission.
Email of any problems regarding above issue to pass to Keith Spencer to take up at DWP standards group. Possible workshop at NAWRA meeting in Glasgow.
Terry Patterson (Manchester Advice)
Increase in HB payments, new in-claims regime, resources put into customer services.
Sam (Sanctuary)
· Meeting in Hackney concerning HB, new system will free up more time to provide better and effective service.
· DWP will identify people who are at high risk of committing fraud and this info will be passed to HB departments to investigate in one of four ways: home visits, review forms, fraud inspectorate, and telephone interviews.
· Local service agreements will need to be revised when new rules introduced in April.
· LA’s interpretation of HB regulations seems to vary.
· Claimants are sent detailed information of entitlement by LA’s, get copy of claimants letter for HB appeals.
· Info request for views on HB London LA’s processes.
· Info request of instances where HB overpayments are being recovered from landlord, where the tenant received the overpayment and an appeal is pending. Email with information.
Ruth Hession (Swansea WR)
TC’s: foster parenting IR website states that foster carers are eligible for WTC but is this right?
Gary Vaux (Herts County Council)
There has to be a reward element in the foster care allowance for it to be considered as remunerative work.
Nel Coles (Swansea WR)
Would there be a problem with satisfying the 16 hours rule?
Gary Vaux
Has not come across this problem. The definition of ‘work’ in the incapacity benefit regulations is useful to look at in this context. Another workshop?
LA foster carers not treated as working for IS purposes, consequences to award element, uncertainty, grey areas.
IR exercise IR35 self-employed versus employed.
Keith (RNID)
The appeals service is using agencies for, interpreters for profoundly deaf appellants. Info request of cases when this is happening.
Leicester using agencies – went badly – back to old process.
Paddy (Bolton WR)
PC & community care June seminar Wigan. Contact Paddy for info. Info to be circulated to members.
Bernie (Suffolk CC)
Tribunals wanting children to attend at appeals concerning child claims – please give info.
CPN should be made to visit one, statutory medical services ask for auto adjournment, unacceptable. Info request for any trends
PS award incorrect info. PS Info request including cases. Quality of literature an issue. Application phone line misinformation seems to be a common problem, training issue. Serious national problem with administration.
Another workshop?
Keith (RNID)
Attends DWP meetings, NAWRA details could be added to DWP meeting notes.
Terry Patterson (Manchester Advice)
National Partnership Fund is now open for applications for organisations doing take-up work.
First Session Workshops
Representation as an unclaimed benefit (Chris Orr, Glasgow City Council Appeals Team)
When the figures for oral hearings - where neither the claimant nor the representative attend - to those for paper hearings, there is on the face of it a major disaster for claimants. How can we reach the people who never attend and almost always lose? Why are there such massive regional differences?
If anyone wants to discuss this problem, then they should feel free to e-mail:
Resources for all workshops attached.
Second Session Workshops
Take-up Today (Terry Patterson, Manchester Advice)
The session also included a look at some items from Benefits, which included examples of take-up work and changing arrangements for claiming. People can see a sample issues free at: http://www.bris.ac.uk/Publications/TPP/benefits.htm
Also referred people to the Good Practice Guide on Take Up produced by the
DWP and LGA and the LGA's Quids for Kids examples. And the scope for applying for funding for take up from the Pension Service's Partnership
Fund. Circulated NAWRA's recent press release on benefits take-up and ethnic minority communities.
Resources for all workshops attached.
Next Meeting/s
Blackpool on 11th June – confirmed.
Glasgow on 3rd September – confirmed.
Wolverhampton/Swansea on 6th December – unconfirmed.
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