Pat Donahue/Tom Bright Debate on the Holy Spirit
Pat Donahue Side A Tape 1:
The proposition that I was to affirm the first two nights is the Scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit dwells personally in faithful Christians and not just or only through the Word. Now in case my proposition doesn’t make it clear, I believe that the Holy Spirit dwells in us representatively through the Word, when and to the extent that we purposely obey His teaching found in His Word. And I believe Ephesians 5:18b teaches representative dwelling through the Word because it’s in command form. But I also believe and this is where Tom and I disagree and is the subject for the debate, I also believe that the Holy Spirit dwells in faithful Christians personally. Now you may not know what I mean by that but I think I can give an illustration that will help you understand the difference between Tom. President Bush could go to Iraq and negotiate personally with them or he could send a representative to negotiate for him. You see, if he sends a representative he will be there representatively to negotiate. But if he went himself that would be personally. He himself would be there. So he could do it either way or he could do it both ways. I believe that the Holy Spirit dwells in us representatively through the Word. That’s just by definition. My father dwells in me to the extent that I obey the teaching he gave to me when I was brought up. But the Bible teaches something more than that, and that is that you receive something when you are baptized, and that is the Holy Spirit Himself personally, not just representatively.
First I would like to turn to Acts 2:38. This is a crucial verse, though not the only verse I will use tonight. In Acts 2:38, a verse we are all familiar with and it should settle the question. Peter told these people, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Now I want you to notice that there are two commands to be obeyed…repent and be baptized. Two blessings will be received if you obey the two commands…..the remission of sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Everybody who repents at that time, each and every one of them, if they do that, of course with the right attitude, after having been a believer, they will receive the remission of sins, and just as sure as they will receive the remission of sins, the verse teaches they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It’s not a maybe, or anything like that, not anymore than the remission of sins is a maybe--- every one of them. You may not understand yet why this is critical but you will when Tom gets up here, because Tom is going to contend that this gift of the Holy Spirit is the miraculous endowment or the miraculous gifts from the Holy Spirit. And as such we will agree that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, the power that came from the Holy Ghost to enable people to do miracles was only given to a select few at that time. If I then can prove that this is a universal thing, this gift of the Holy Spirit, then I can prove that it is not the miraculous gift of the Holy Spirit. You see that? That’s why I will be laboring in this speech to prove in some of the passages that it’s a universal thing.
1Now the gift of the Holy Ghost, you know that is ambiguous in the English and I think also in the Greek. And it’s ambiguous in this way…you say gift of the Holy Ghost and you could be talking about a gift that the Holy Spirit gives, and that is the way Tom will understand it. Or you could be talking about the Holy Ghost is the gift that is given. For example, in Ephesians 2:8 the Bible talks about salvation as being a gift of God. That means that God gives a gift, not that God is the gift. But here are some examples where we say gift of something and then we name the gift that is given, not the source of the gift. For an every day illustration, gift of money. Money is the gift, not the giver. Or Ezekiel 46:17 talks about a man who gave a gift of his inheritance. The inheritance is not the giver, the source of the gift; it’s the gift itself. Romans 5:17, the gift of righteousness. 1 Corinthians 13:2, the gift of prophesy. “Gift of” names the gift. It can go either way, in the Greek or in the English. I think Tom will agree with that. Here’s a sort of humorous example. When I got married about thirteen years ago, I received a gift of Carol. You know I received it in both ways, her father gave her away so she was a gift to me but also she gave me a gift, a ring. So I received a gift of Carol in both ways on my wedding day. Now I’m going to show by other passages tonight in this first speech (if I can get to them) that the gift of the Holy Ghost though it’s ambiguous here, we are going to prove that the Holy Ghost is the gift itself. We are going to prove that by going to these passages.
First let’s go to Acts 5:32. Now this doesn’t say they are going to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, it says they will receive the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the gift. Acts 5:32“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” So it’s not talking about something that the Holy Ghost gave. It’s saying that God gave the Holy Ghost to them that obey Him. This explains Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 may have been ambiguous but this explains for sure what it’s talking about. The Holy Ghost is the gift of Acts 2:38. The Holy Ghost is the gift himself. That’s clear from Acts 5:32; it says the Holy Ghost whom God hath given. He is the gift. Now who gets the Holy Ghost according to Acts 5:32? Those that obey Him. That’s similar to Hebrews 5:9 where the Bible says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Who is that talking about? That is all the Christians. Every single person who obeys Christ in the way that Christ has specified will receive salvation from the Lord. And so it’s the same way here – every person that obeys him, Acts 5:32, will receive this gift, that is the Holy Ghost.
Next turn to Luke 11:13. All of these passages prove my proposition. It would only take one, but all of them prove it, because all of them teach that the Holy Ghost is the thing that is given. And that we all, Christians then and today, still get the gift of the Holy Ghost. And that contradicts what Tom Bright will teach in this discussion. In Luke 11:13, the Bible says, Jesus speaking, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Now the Holy Spirit is something that God will give to those that ask him. Now I don’t necessarily have time to do all this in this speech but if you compare this passage, that is Luke 11:9-13 with Matthew 7:7-11, you will see that they are almost exactly the same word for word. And they both start with ‘Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, and so forth. We all understand that this applies to everybody, not just to the apostles or a select few that received a miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit, it applies to everybody. When we talk about somebody in China who has not heard the gospel and we worry about him being saved, and somebody says that’s not fair. And we say, no, if they seek they will find. God will send somebody. We know that this passage applies to all, in Matthew 7. And all Matthew 7:7-11 and Luke 11:9-13 is is just a continuation or elaboration of “ask and you will receive seek and you shall find,” that’s all it is. What I’m doing is showing the universality of Luke 11:13 where it says God will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him. That’s everybody, not just a select few, not just a few Christians who receive the miraculous, this is everybody. Now you ask, well how did they ask? Well, it’s not through prayer necessarily, because this is something that is given to somebody when they become a Christian. How do they ask? Well it’s just like when we talk about it with a Baptist, and debate with a Baptist, they say well how can you call upon the name of the Lord? You have to pray. No, Acts 22:16, Ananias told Saul to arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord. So how do you ask for the remission of sins? How do you ask God to wash away your sins? You do that by calling upon God to wash away your sins by being baptized. How do you call upon God or ask God to give you the remission of sins if you are a non-Christian? You don’t do this in prayer, he’s already told you what to do. He says repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. So if you want to ask God for the remission of sins you don’t do it through prayer. You can do it by doing what he has told you to do. And the same thing for Act 2:38, how do you ask God for the Holy Ghost, Luke 11:13b? You do it by repenting and being baptized because He’s already told you that if you will do that then you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:38. So that’s how you ask him to give you the Holy Spirit, according to Luke 11:13. Before I move on, remember in Luke 11:13 he named the Holy Ghost as the gift. The Holy Spirit is the thing that is given when you ask.
In John 7:38,39 the Bible says, “He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” Now this talks in two places about people believing in Christ. The believers in Christ, that’s not just some people, a select few, that’s anybody who believes. Now what will they receive if they believe? They will receive the Holy Spirit is what it says. ‘This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive.’ You know in John 3:16 he said those that believe would receive everlasting life. They would not perish. Is that everybody or just a select few? This is pretty much the same wording and it says ‘they will receive the Spirit’. I believe it. They received the Spirit itself, every single one of them that believe. Of course we are talking about complete obedience, not the kind they have in John 12 where they weren’t willing to confess. And so, in the three passages we’ve been through, the personal indwelling of the Holy Ghost is a conditional gift. If you believe, you will get the Holy Ghost according to the passage I’m at. Acts 2:38, if you repent and be baptized you will get the Holy Ghost. Acts 5:32, if you obey you get the Holy Ghost. And again notice in John 7, that the Holy Spirit is the thing that is given. It’s not a gift from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the thing that is given. That helps us with Acts 2:38. Who gets the Holy Ghost according to John 7:39? Twice it says that those who believe on him, that is all Christians get it. Not just a select few.
And then Romans 5:5, look at that in your Bible. It says, “and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.” Again notice it’s the Holy Ghost that’s given, not the power from the Holy Ghost. Again, this helps explain Acts 2:38. Romans 5:5 shows that all Christians are given the Holy Spriit, because that who is under consideration in Romans 5:5, and we’ll prove that by the context if we need to.
I Thessalonians 4:8 reads, “He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit.” Now is it a gift from the Holy Spirit, is he the giver? No, he is the gift. Again this helps explain Acts 2:38. Who is promised the Holy Spirit, by I Thes 4:8? We’ll look at the context; those who are not to despise man, verse 8, by defrauding our brother in any matter, but instead are to show brotherly love, verse 9, for God hath not called us unto uncleanness but unto holiness, verse 7. Is that all Christians, or just to a select few, maybe just the apostles? That’s all the Christians, that’s the context of 1 Thes 4:8. That’s who will receive the Holy Spirit.
Titus 3:5,6 “not by works of righteousness which we have done, (to start with who is that talking about, just the apostles, a select few, or is that everybody?) but according to his mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, (that’s every Christian, that’s how everybody becomes a Christian) and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;” You see there, he says ‘the renewing of the Holy Ghost, which (talking about the Holy Ghost) He (I take that to be God the Father) shed on us (or as the Greek would say poured out on us) abundantly through Jesus Christ.’ The Holy Ghost is what is poured out from God. The Holy Ghost is the element of the pouring, not the one doing the pouring. In the American Standard Version, ‘renewing by the Holy Ghost whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ.’ NIV, ‘renewal by the Holy Spirit whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ.’ NKJV, ‘renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ.’ By the way if I don’t state a version, it will be the old KJV. So who is promised the Holy Spirit, according to Titus 3:6? Those who are saved according to his mercy. Is that just a select few Christians, or is that all of them? Justified by his grace, verse 7, is that every Christian or just a select few who received the miraculous, Tom? And made heirs of eternal life. I think it is very clear that is every Christian and it says they will receive the Holy Spirit. And that’s what I’m talking about. This is not referring to the miraculous because only a select few Christians received the miraculous.
1 John 3:24“And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.” Again it’s not a gift from the Spirit, but the Spirit is the thing that is given. That helps us again to explain Acts 2:38. Who is promised the Holy Ghost according to 1 John 3:24? Well it’s those who keep his commandments. Those whose prayers are answered, verse 22. Those who dwell in God and he in them. That’s all Christians, not just a select few, not just the apostles and a few others. This passage teaches that all Christians are given the Holy Ghost, not just a select few.
1 John 4:13 is very similar, “Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.” Again the Holy Spirit is the thing that is given. It is not the source of the gift. God is the source, God the Father. Who was promised the Holy Spirit, according to 1 John 4:13? Those who dwell in God and he in them. That’s all Christians, isn’t it? Those who can have boldness in the day of judgment, I hope that’s all Christians and not just the apostles. So the Holy Spirit is promised to all Christians here, not just to a select few. This is not talking about the miraculous.
Now back to Acts 2:38. When we’ve gone through six or eight different proof texts and most of them say just about the same thing and they all show that where Acts 2:38 is ambiguous, is it a gift from the Holy Ghost or is the Holy Ghost the gift himself, it is the Holy Ghost himself. The following verses prove that the gift of the Holy Ghost refers to the Holy Ghost himself as the gift. Just a summary of what we’ve done – give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him, the Spirit which they that believe on him should receive, the Holy Ghost whom God has given to them that obey him, Holy Ghost which is given to us, hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit, the Spirit which he hath given us. All say that the Holy Spirit is the thing that is given. Now Tom believes that in all or practically all of them, that it’s referring to the miraculous measure and I’ve tried to show all the way through that it’s not the miraculous measure. He believes that all these passages that I’ve been going to are all talking about the miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit or whatever he wants to call it, miraculous type. And so I’ve laboring to prove that these passages are universal to all Christians that show his view is not true.