Ferry and Bus Fare Increases 2013 – Comments by DB Residents
4. 9.5 % IS TOO MUCH.
5. Thanks Amy as usual we rely on you for your diligence and transparency.
Considering I was laid off work for a year and my last increase in pay has been two percent and that my current salary is down 25% overall and I think I'm not alone in this...our daily costs are continually rising, this would just make everything worst and like a number of our friends make us look at alternate living locations outside of DB.
6. 如果渡輪服務真的加價，居民可否有乘搭優惠？
7. There is no justification to increase fares,especially bus fares as the buses are always full (DB3R and 3P)and I am quite sure they cannot be going at a loss,this also applies to the internal bus routes.
FARES ARE ALREADY HIGH. BUSES ARE ALWAYS FULL. SO THEY CANNOT BE GOING AT A LOSS
8. I hope I understand the questions correctly, I definitely disagree with the “ferry fare increase”.
9. The unusually high prices of DB transportation are so far out of alignment with the rest of the market, that DB is in danger of becoming a prohibitively expensive place to live. Boat and bus fares are already higher than anywhere else in HKG. The only ostensible reason for this is the complete monopoly on these services that Hong Kong Resorts leverages to their very profitable benefit.
If HKRI says that DB Transportation cannot run a service for the residents at a reasonable fee, then by all meanns they should step aside to allow a provider who can and will.
10. Transparency of operation has never been the hallmark of DBTSL as evidenced by the statement that operating costs have "increased tremendously"which is nothing short of a meaningless bland corporate statementwithout comprehensive operating accounts to support their contention.....!!
12. I have sent back the form to you and will forward your email to others. Meanwhile, points fy reference:
1. Both the fares of bus and ferry are the highest in HK. If they cannot operate, please release their operation right to other company.
2. We need financial supports for ferry and bus. Bus should have big profit.
3. Please introduce section fare for local bus, and also exemption charges for kid and eldest, disable, student.
4. Introduce fare exemption for student > 18 years old, etc. for both ferry and bus.
5. HKR should provide better living environment for us to stay longer instead rising the essential charges.
6. The charges for 30mins ferry trip for more than $30, 1-2 mins. of local bus at $4, and 20 mins for DB01/02 at $9.1 are not comparable to other transportation agency. They should release the operational right to other existing operator, which is good to HKR and us.
7. They should reconsider as the raising will motivate people to move out.
8. We need consultation !
13. They have got to be 'taking the piss' to quote the vernacular!
Time to return to absolute (not relative or percentages) and do comparative ferry costs with other providers and routes.e.g. Park Island, Lamma, Cheung Chau.
14 1. There are NO financial reports to support claims for fare increase by Discovery Transportation Services Limited (Ferry Company) and Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (Bus Company)!
l Why should DB Residents support the proposed fare increases without providing justification in the form of audited accounts?
2. HKR (developer & manager) have legally separated the transport in DB into Discovery Transportation Services Limited (Ferry Company) and Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (Bus Company)!
l Before the tunnel from DB was built allowing bus transportation to Tung Chung & Sunny Bay, only the Discovery Bay Transportation Services Limited (Ferry Company) operated to transport DB Residents outside of DB; presumably on a profitable basis!
l Since the tunnel was built, Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (bus company), this has naturally created internal “competition” between the two firms!
l It is reasonable to believe therefore that the losses claimed by Discovery Bay Transportation Services Limited (Ferry Company) are more than offset by the profits made by Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (Bus Company).
3. The Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (Bus Company) should provide legally supported evidence that they are unable to profitably provide a bus service to/from Tung Chung and Sunny Bay for HK$9.1 per single trip; whereas City Bus and New World Bus companies already provide a service on HK Island and Kowloon for significantly less money, even over longer distances!!
4. What measures are being taken to ensure that both the Discovery Bay Transportation Services Limited (Ferry Company) and Discovery Bay Transit Services Limited (Bus Company) are inflating their costs by purchasing services provided to them by third party companies under control of HKR, etc such as fuel and labour costs (which they are claiming have risen)??
15. Agree with price increase but should be no more than 5%. Appreciate if you could pass the above view for us.
16. It would be another increase in fares, which is not appropriate in the current economic situation. Nobody gets salary increases to handle all price increases! Compared to Hong Kong Island the bus and ferry prices are very high in DB anyway!
There has to be a stop to the thinking that DB residents can endure all price increases!!!
18.
1. Both the fares of bus and ferry are highest in HK. If they cannot operate, please release their operation right to other company.
2. We need financial supports for ferry and bus. Bus should have big profit.
3. Please introduce section fare for local bus, and also charges for kid and eldest, disable, student.
4. Introduce exemption for student> 18 years old, etc. for both ferry and bus.
5. HKR should provide better living environment for us to stay longer instead rising the essential charges.
6. They should reconsider as the raising will motivate people to move out.
19.
1. 不同意加價，車子及船費現已很昂貴！
2. 9.5% 比通脹和平均薪金加幅更高。
3. 沒財務報告給居民參閲！
20. Both increases are not justified as the ferry tickets are already the most expensive in Hong Kong and HKR has made no effort to increase revenue as proposed by the residents. With the Public Recreational Facilities, the Hotel and the Amalfi opening and the introduction of the HK$ 2 concessionary fare there are additional vast opportunities to increase ridership. In my case the resident service costs HK$ 4 for less than 1 kilometer and all I get is a standing space packed as sardines on what is operated as a franchised bus when supposed to be a resident service”
I think you should as a matter of urgency start a dialogue with TD on introducing franchised bus services for the external routes
21. Please treat this email as disagreement to both fare hikes in your reply word file, with comments as per below:
This proposed increase is absurd. Whilst there is call for inflationary adjustment, there has to be a check and balance of whether gross mismanagement exists within DBR. Moreover, there needs to be verified whether public contributions to DB's transportation infrastructure have been siphoned off to finance DBR's other projects such as the new hotel, the chapel, the ranch for horses, property sales offices, etc.
Until there is an independent audit of DBR's books in verifying said loses are indeed directly attributed by relevant and inflationary costs, and not mismanagement or inter-group company collusions, we as residence cannot accept such unilateral fare increase, especially when the last increase was only in 2011.
An off-hand rough calculation shows in 365 days, based on 18,000 residence and 70% between age 14-65:
Ferry round trips should amount to ~4.41 million trips in total (in and out, workers and students)
Tung Chung and Sunny Bay bus trips amount to ~2.77 million trips
Internal bus trips ~13.14 million trips
Which comes to the increase of revenue, if based on 9.5%,
Ferry: $14.2 million (4.41 mio x $33.8 x 9.5%)
Outbound buses: $2.3 million (2.77 mio x $9.10 x 9.5%)
Intra-community buses: $5 million (13.14 mio x $4 x 9.5%)
Totaling $21.55 million if the fares were to be increased by 9.5%. DBR claims it loss $6 million for the year 2012. To compensate its losses, the appropriate increase should be 2.65% (6 mio / 21.5 mio x 9.5%) providing aforementioned audit is made transparent.
The calculation, although rough and conservative, is a pretty good representation of DB's transportation picture until actual numbers are provided. From cross checking the numbers, the accuracy is surprisingly close to theSubmission to Legislative Council Panel on Transportfor Meeting on 2 June, 2011 by you:
"The HKR document released byTD on 6 May, 2011, shows that, in2010-11, the ferry carried 4.26 millionpassengers. This is a fall of9.55%, a dramatic fall in ridership injust three years. This fall cannotbe attributed to a simple change of preference; it can only be due to adramatic swing in the demographicof Discovery Bay brought on by thesharp fare increase introduced in 2009."
The new $2 elderly scheme is subsidized by the government, hence it is not considered in the estimate. However, even if included, the difference would be insignificant as those over 65 represent a small % of population at DB.
Thank you for your attention.
22. 船：在非繁忙時間，應該使用省油，省人手的小型船。用大船載少量乘客，但把管理不善
而虧損的後果推到乘客身上。只求加價，不求改進，永遠解決不了問題。最後因爲船費太高，
另更多人改坐車。而船的虧損更大，難度再加價，妄想可以有盈餘嗎。
車：無理由虧損， 希望公開數據。
23. I strongly support the idea that a business needs to profitable to run effectively and efficiently and to generate a added value. However, the argumentation used for yet another increase of the fares for busses and ferry are not sufficient.
- HKR claims the transportation business are loss making: they need to open the audited books to display and defend this argument
- Contrary to the argument by HKR, I strongly believe that the bus services are highly profitable!
- HKR’s argumentation that they loose customers to the bus and MTR services should not be matched with a fare increase but rather with increased customer service to prevent people from choosing the less expansive but also longer route to Central
- Apart from that, HKD 33 for a (for many people) daily ferry ride and return (HKD 66) is a great deal of money! The discount offered for residents is marginal and hardly recognizable. On top, with the new and governmentally subsidized ‘elderly’ tariff, I expect more passengers use the ferry.
On top, there are a great deal of environmental issues that are caused by the ferry and the busses by the large number of busses and ferry traffic right next to the main and most crowded area in DB: The Plaza! If I am correct, this is a ‘recreational’ area but exposed to (what I suspect) a rather severe toxic environment due to fumes and exhausts. This should be a separate topic addressed.
24. Simple reply for me is objection but how much we can do? this is typical case how HK government fails and controlled by property bosses. God bless.
29. Same as always to Ferry Company If you want us to agree we need to see !!!
For starters . What is the the % increase in fuel, manpower costs and maintainance
Not 9,5 % probably
30. i think 9.5% increased in ferry fares is too high at this moment.
31. Live with to query the efficiency and effectiveness of the management as the fare increase has become an annual about!
32. The bus services are poor, absolutely poor because the number of buses are insufficient, the frequency of buses is unsatisfactory, and the over-crowdy situation of the buses has often made buses unsafe. There was no checks and balances on both the bus and ferry services. The ferry fares are too expensive and fails to provide reasonable fares to residents. I strongly object to the proposed increases in the fares of both buses and ferry services.
33.
1. 應合併考慮 愉景灣航運服務有限公司及愉景灣交通服務有限公司營運情況。
2. 渡輪服務使用T-card後及有時間限制，更減少了非經常乘客。
3. 渡輪票價昂貴及限制多多，居民多選擇乘巴士，至令巴士經常爆滿，巴士公司應有大量盈餘。
4. 巴士票價也昂貴，記得初期巴士是沒有企位的，後來曾加了企位，但票價並沒有下調。
36. I don't agree to the fare increase for both bus and ferry. As a public company, the company as a whole is profitable. They can't just look into one business unit as they make money elsewhere already, such as bus. Bus fare is quite expensive and no child fare within the community.
37. Fare increases must be justified with evedence by way of financial statements to show increased costs/loss of earnings.
38. Amy thks why are park island ferries half price of DB ferries.
It's becoming very expensive now.
39. This is totally unacceptable, especially the Ferry fare !
We have to ask a question, why there are so much people taking the shuttle bus instead of Ferry in the peak hour ? Because the Ferry fare increased rapidly since 2011 (if I'm correct !). Also they cut down the route and having extra charges after mid night. I'm also wrote down a complaint letter at that time? For cost saving point of view, why don't cut down the staffs ? I think they got too many staffs on the boat !
Secondly, it is super expensive to charge HK9.1 for short distance of shuttle services ! In addition, it should made a huge money, because it always full ! Why still increase the fare then ?
My suggest to the operation:
1. To attract more residents to take the ferry, to establish peak and non peak hours, cut down the manning or offer more attractive monthly pass ...etc. don't just thinking to increase the fare !
2. If more people taking the ferry, which definitely reduce the pressure of shuttle bus, especially in peak hour !