CANADA WATER CONSULTATIVE FORUM
MINUTES OF MEETING: 3
Date: Monday, 8th September 2008
Venue: Alfred Salter School, Quebec Way, Rotherhithe SE16 7LP
Forum Member: (attendees in bold)
Ray Woolford (RW) Barry Duckett (BD)
Bob Muid (BM) Cllr Paul Noblet (PN)
John Hellings (JH) Cllr David Hubber (DH)
Kath Whittam (KW) Mohamed Backelani (MB)
Lisa Hollamby (LH) Janet Hodge (JHo)
Anna Devlett (AD) Gareth Osborne (GO)
Jo Sistern (JS) Faith Rep
Pauline Adenwalla (PA) Youth Rep
Spencer Whitworth (SW) Volunteer 2
Cllr Lisa Rajan Disabilities Rep
Older Persons Rep
James Oates (JO)
In Attendance:
J Hewitt, C Harding, Natalie Thompson, Stephanie Lodge, Jim Lodge, Ian Moore, John Wills, Philip Baker, Andy Weeton, Ian Derbyshire, Ian Chapman, Patrick Horan, Jeremy Simons, Steve Cornish, Andrew McManus, Mark del Canto
1. Welcome
The Chair thanked all those in attendance for coming along, including those from the Brunswick Quay Residents Association. Due to the demise of Cllr Anne Yates and subsequent purdah, the scheduled LBS speakers had withdrawn. Cllr Rajan was present but would not be participating in debate.
2. Minutes 14/7/08
After a brief recap of the minutes, JH asked for a correction to be made re Links which should have been called PPI.
The minutes were then accepted.
4. Matters Arising – action points
The Multi-Modal Study was still not available either in a full or abbreviated version despite constant chasing. As public money had been spent on this PA agreed to chase further.
5. Presentation – Hanne Puttonen of Frogmore – update on Surrey Quays Leisure Centre Proposals
Hanne said that a public consultation had been held in the 2nd week of July and that plans had been presented to the Southwark Review Panel. The police had been fully consulted regarding the underground parking area. Individual presentations had also taken place with Russia Court and Brunswick Quay. Vicky added that the architects /master planners are based in Southwark.
On display boards those present were shown how the plans had been adjusted to extend streets within the site and that properties were allocated both front and back doors and some had private gardens. With the link of the public square to Greenland dock, they felt it actually makes a stronger connection with the current leisure centre.
Patrick Horan asked for confirmation that until the new facilities were ready that the current bingo and cinema would not be closed. He was also concerned that the restaurants too would close before the new premises were ready and this would be a vital loss to the community. Hanne explained that any move had to be undertaken with the approval of the current leaseholders: all restaurants would be on the ground floor with the cinema on the lst floor level.
He asked about the current plans for cinema size but was told that this had not yet been decided upon. Showing an aerial view, Hanne explained how the site would look but further decision would not be taken until a more detailed stage was reached. This would include decisions on what trees would be brought into the area.
In response to questions re late night noise, Hanne said that this would be limited and in particular with reference to Harmsworth Quays and the loading bay, she referred to speed bumps. The student accommodation would face south over a landscaped area which would act as a buffer and act as a preventative noise shield.
All the habitable rooms would be south facing with the bathrooms and storage facilities facing north.
One member was concerned that the residents would be able to see into each others windows. However, Hanne explained that the courtyards were approximately 20-30 metres apart so that this concern was unfounded. Also further down the design stage the corner area views would again be revisited. She estimated the distance across the road to Redriff Road as approximately 20-25 metres. As was expected in a development partnership relevant owner agreement would be sought at development stage.
It was not yet known which education facility students would be from, but it was confirmed that discussions had been held with Kings College, Southwark College and the London College of Arts. This was in reference to the proposed 150 student dwellings.
In response to questions of total number of units available, Hanne said that the UDP allowed for between 499-998 habitable dwellings and that the existing plans were nowhere near this number.
In response to questions on height, Hanne responded that the buildings in the main would be between 4 and 5 storey with the possibility of one taller building, some 50 metres being the cut off point which would view the corridor from Greenwich to St Paul’s. This was likely to reach 16 storeys.
Bob Muid, referring to the leisure buildings of 3 storeys in height, approximately 12-15 metres high, asked for clarification over whether in the rebuilding any facilities would be lost. He was concerned that the design would not provide enough space for 3 restaurants, a bingo hall, a bowling alley and a cinema.
Parking totalled just 650 with 500 of those spaces being underground.
Although 100 resident parking spaces would be available on the street, this he felt did not seem a realistic figure for 400 flats. Hanne said further parking surveys were still to come but the consensus was that the council were attempting to drive down parking numbers and car useage.
One member asked whether business use had been considered at all, particularly small local oriented business, but Hanne responded that no specific research had been done for this daytime usage but that the multi-modal study had been used.
The community were clearly concerned re the impact of parking in the area. They also asked where the main entrance would be for the commercial buildings, but were told that this did not exist at this present time. So far there was just one entrance to the car park planned and only one exit. Concern was also raised re what, if any, considerations had been given to public transport bearing in mind that at least 35% of the dwellings would be affordable dwellings.
SC raised the point that Tim Thompson had chosen this crucial time to go on secondment. There was he said substantial land – 8.5 acres around Quebec where Boots used to be and where Universal Bakeries would come to an end in August. Still little consideration had been given to school or GP provision for the area.
JH was concerned that the increased capacity of Tesco would increase parking requirements for new customers.
A community member commented that although locals appreciated the square incorporating green features, that it was hoped that the ecology officer would be involved in selection and hopefully that selection would incorporate a high number of British native trees
RW said the current plans differed greatly from the previous presentation. Originally at least 10% were for family accommodation – were these homes still on plan. The response was that currently there were no detailed plans.
It was commented that although there had been an exhibition where 45 people attended, of the 2000 invites sent out only some received notification – many in fact did not.
JH said that more than the current display was required. The response was that there would be a web page and formal presentation at the end of the year. With an outline planning application they would then consult further.
BM asked for a guarantee re leisure provision that the proposed facilities at least would match those existing. For example, he quoted a previous plan which supported a promise of a new swimming pool which had now gone off the radar.
Presentation – Anna Devlett – update on BL Canada Quays
AD started her presentation by explained that site B was by CW tube station, the library being by the entrance. B2, middle, had outline planning permission and B1, building already commenced by Barrett.
With reference to B2, she explained that there would be a public exhibition at Seven Islands Leisure Centre on the 16, 17 and 18th September.
On display boards she indicated the proposed ground floor retail units. There would be, she said, 35% affordable homes mostly shared ownership with 10% allocated for disabled use and a similar proportion of underground parking for the disabled.
All sides of the building would be curved with heavy brickwork and balconies made of steel and glass. There would be an amenity space, a landscaped garden area which would be semi-public and semi-private.
The highest grade powerplant had been selected to provide renewable energy – back up gas boilers which would result in a very sustainable building.
The ultimate number of dwellings would be 178.
BM commented that in his opinion the original designs had been improved upon. He asked AD to note that he felt the residents at the Pumphouse would like to attend the forthcoming meeting. AD commented that some residents from there were already sitting on the Committee.
RW was curious about the square footage re the single person units. He also queried whether these lifetime homes and disability flats would actually be affordable in this financial climate.
AD said that some upper areas actually had studio flats allowing increased affordability.
PA said that B1 dwellings were being launched with a start price of approximately 250k.
SC reiterated that again 1 and 2 bed flats dominated where in reality 3,4, and 5 bed homes were much needed in the area. This would mean that local people would not be getting what they wanted or needed.
A community member reinforced that energy and water efficiency services should be affordable. AD said that heat loss would be minimal with heat retained in the walls. But that dwellings would be cool in the summer and that the roof would be green.
JH said that we should not use the term Plaza but to go with the public opinion which seemed to support the use of the word Square.
AD said that the 178 dwellings would be a mix of 3,2,1 and studio flats.
KW asked about the community space and was advised that the plaza garden would be accessible but that the roof space would be private.
7. Site Updates
Library – the library should be completed by the end of October 2010.
Site A – had an application in for a marketing suite. There would be a footpath and crossing at B1. The temporary crossing and road in the plaza – but they were still waiting for this permission.
Site C and E - progressing with housing on site. 40% would be 3 and 4 bedroom homes. Presentations would be held at Alfred Salter possibly on a Saturday morning / evening.
One forum member interjected that a combination of dates and times would be required.
KW said re Site E that the original plans for this were now completely dead (i.e. the new leisure centre/swimming pool). Its preferred usage was now for the PCT as a polyclinic.
PN said that LBS certainly had no money for a swimming pool. Southwark had rejected an application for extended hours for business units and restaurants and Wimpy were currently going to appeal.
One member said that what was required by the community were more decent restaurants.
Canon Wharf – RW said that developers of Cannon Wharf were trying to extend the number of business units, whereas Wimpy pass people from pillar to post when enquiries are made. PA added that she had written regarding the live/work units and that tenants were not forthcoming unless hours were extended to 11 pm/ Further investigations were definitely required.
Downtown - SC commented that Cllr Yates would be sorely missed as she supported disadvantaged local people. He then went on to say that home zones should not be used on new developments as traffic calming measures. They were not necessary where a blank canvas was available.
He also expressed concern re variations in proposals which now excluded a breakfast club, crèche and community hall.
3 local councillors would be meeting the planning committee to look at the site. It should be noted that dustcarts could not turn near the l bed flats as was shown in the mayoral report. He stated that the 3 grounds for refusal still stood as of 4.9.08. There were 14 days in which to respond as the planning committee were due to sit on 17th October. Currently the case officer was on holiday and the website was not up to date.
Patrick Horan said purdah may effect planned dates and that therefore the Forum should write to ask for a delay. The planning committee meeting just 2 days before the election would simply not be acceptable.
Mulberry – the enforcement officer had managed to get the churches evicted but it was noted that travellers had now moved in. In October the site would be demolished and boarded.
8. Strategic Landowners Group – no further update
9. Any other Business – none
10. Date of Next Meetings –
Monday, 20th October 7.00 – 9.00pm at Alfred Salter School
Thereafter lst Dec, 12th Jan, 23rd Feb, 30th Mar
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