Kirkwood History Project
Interview of Rita Awan
Interviewers: RM, CC, CH, LR
Transcription date: 2/04/2004
Transcribed by: AB
Interviewer 1: When, when, when did you move to Kirkwood, get started on your garden?
Rita Awan: I moved to Kirkwood, nine-, oh well, nineteen ninety-nine.
Interviewer 1: Oh okay.
Rita Awan: Nineteen ninety-nine.
Interviewer 1: Very good, and what, what uh, caused you to decide to move to Kirkwood of all places?
Rita Awan: Because I was living in Midtown and I couldn’t afford to purchase anything there. Because Kirkwood really was not on my list.
Interviewer 1: And how did you discover Kirkwood?
Rita Awan: Reading the newspaper. Um, listening to others, knowing that I wanted to be in town. Knowing I wanted to be close to the school. I wanted to be close to um, work. I did not want to travel.
Interviewer 1: And you found all these things at Kirkwood?
Rita Awan: I did.
Interviewer 1: And---
Rita Awan: And more.
Interviewer 1: And more? What else?
Rita Awan: (Clear throat) You know, I, I really thought that I move into a transitionary (sic) community and I could be comfortable with it. But Kirkwood for me was very disturbing.
Interviewer 1: In what way?
(Long pause)
Interviewer 1: Go ahead, you are among friends (laugh).
Rita Awan: (Pause) So unsightly. Um, the element of people that lived in the community. Uh, Kirkwood really disturbs my sentiments because it made me stop and look at who I thought I was. Um, because I had no tolerance for a lot of it. I didn’t know I was like that. Um…I think that basically sums it up.
Interviewer 1: I, I find that I share some of this, the experiences. I think Kirkwood is a great learning place. I’ve learned a lot living here.
Rita Awan: Oh we have, I mean Kirkwood really disturb my sentiments because I want to be an anthropo-, an anthropologist. And I’ve been in and out of school, in and out of school. And all of a sudden one day I was so angry at my neighbors and I said, “What kind of anthropologist would you make? You can’t even sit here and get along with your neighbors. I mean you live in the same country. And you can’t sit here and go through ideal anthropological training where all you have to realize is they have a different culture. Even though you are here, they live differently then-“ So if I change my attitude Kirkwood would be a fantastic place for me to start doing some of my observations. And that was not by choice.
Interviewer 1: That sounds like a wonderful learning experience you are having?
Rita Awan: Yes, it is. You know, I tell you what it’s very different when you can be an observer and you don’t live in the community. So when you live in the community you have to take it a step, you know---
Interviewer 2: And you aren’t-don’t have the opportunity to come out of the community. I mean, it’s one thing being an observer, an anthropologist where you go into the field and you live there even for a couple of years, knowing that home is somewhere else?
Rita Awan: Right.
Interviewer 2: But this is home.
Rita Awan: This is home.
Interviewer 2: Makes a difference.
Rita Awan: So I had to really sit down and reexamine myself. And since I’ve done that, it’s gotten much better. Um, because my approach was different. (Long pause)
Interviewer 1: I suspect that a lot of people share in that, that experience. I certainly hope that a lot of people share in that experience. Um…I think that, you learn to appreciate situations that uh, are occurring around us.
Rita Awan: Well that we perceive to be, to be negative. But the thing about Kirkwood is that every time I thought I was going to move, I stopped and I thought about where I was going to move. And I realized something, Kirkwood had creped into my being. (Everyone laugh) I was like, you know, I don’t know any place else that I could move to that you walk down the neigh-, your block. And someone invites you over for dinner, you and your son. I don’t know any place else where you have neighbors driving down the street and the next thing you know, you had a thirty-minute roadside conversation, or they come in and they’re touring your house or touring your yard. I don’t know any place else where you have…energy and everyone is synergized like Kirkwood. And when I thought about leave, leaving Kirkwood I was like I can’t leave Kirkwood because everything else would be too sterile, so. Here I am.
Interviewer 1: So you’re becoming a part of the history of Kirkwood now?
Rita Awan: Yes, mm-hmm.
Interviewer 1: What um, what things have you learned about the history of Kirkwood prior to you living here? How has that influence your, your opinion of Kirkwood?
Rita Awan: (Long pause) (Knocking sound) Well I didn’t really know that historically about Kirkwood before I moved here. I mean---
Interviewer 1: (Interviewer inaudible)---
Rita Awan: ---Understood that um, maybe about thirty years ago Kirkwood was a very, uh nice community, community. I understood that uh, Kirkwood was predominantly white about thirty years ago. Um, from talking to some of my neighbors I know that Kirkwood for them was um, a step up. Because they came here from the Fourth Ward so this was like suburbia to them. And I found that very interesting. (Pause) So I, you know, I don’t really know if any of that influence how I feel about how I, if I will stay in Kirkwood. How much I will, will work to uh, will continue to see the uh, the community evolve into something that we all feel really proud of. And we would like to uh, be affiliated with. Um…
Interviewer 1: Well, what I hear you saying is that, you’ve already established a connection with Kirkwood, which is very positive for you. And that uh, I would think your expectations then be, that it would grow from there and just become more and more significant?
Rita Awan: Yes, I would like to see that happened. Because it could be a, a beautiful community. Um…and I like the diversity in Kirkwood. Kirkwood to me is very representative of the real world. Uh, we might not like everything in the real world but Kirkwood is the real world, okay? And um, you know short of it being um, invasive and damaging, to me I find it quite fascinating.
Interviewer 1: Do you find that the diversity is continuing to grow and develop? You find that uh, uh, positive aspects to that diversity?
Rita Awan: In one instance, and on the other no. Um, I, I, I like the diversity because I see that um, we are having more people where I think they have a higher um, ethical value base. On the other hand what I don’t like is when I made, made a decision to move to Kirkwood I was living in Midtown. And if I wasn’t going to have my child um, it would have not but an issue for me to move some place where there were people of color. But what I find disturbing to me and I don’t know if it’s how they market or how they don’t market Kirkwood. I find it quite disturbing that we’re not getting uh, more people of color moving into the community. Uh, because eventually if you have uh, the same pattern that you are having now, the community that I moved into because of what it was by its demographic makeup won’t be. And I want my son to grow up in a world as representative of not just everybody else but also representative of who he is and not just the negative aspects of Kirkwood and the people of color that you see (respondent inaudible)
Interviewer 1: Do you---
Rita Awan: They---
Interviewer 1: Do you have any ideas as to how-, what might happen to help bring that about?
Rita Awan: Well you know, I, I, I think it has a lot to do with how the real estate um, agents or their brokers market Kirkwood. I mean they have a, a, a preconceived idea of who they want in Kirkwood. Okay? And so, I mean when I talk to my friends about moving to Kirkwood, no agents are talking to them about Kirkwood.
Interviewer 1: I find it interesting that you say that because what, what little I know about white flight in the sixties was also managed and produced by the real estate business. And I hear you saying that that still continues.
Rita Awan: I think so. I mean that’s my um, observation. I am not in real estate and I can’t say that that’s factual but you don’t-I mean when you start talking to people and know, you know, so many people had no idea what’s going on it Kirkwood and you are out there in the market and you’re seeing brokers and real estate agents that, that are coming from Buckhead. I am like, that’s interesting.
Interviewer 1: Do you have any influence with, with uh friends or maybe former neighbors of color that you might interest in moving into Kirkwood?
Rita Awan: Uh, not the way that Kirkwood is right now um, because typically most African Americans are not going move someplace where-they don’t care if it’s transitionary (sic) or not, they’re not going to move someplace where they trying-they’re going move into something that they are trying to leave all this negative stuff. So, um…if they bought the package that moving out to suburbia is all that. It’s, it’s crime free and they have a better, better schools and they have the better shopping. And uh, they can get the same uh, product cheaper then what you have. They feel that um, they’re public services are better then yours, no they are not going to come here.
Interviewer 1: Some of my black neighbors have been here for quite some time and some of them certainly are in position where they could leave any time they choose to. They’re not, um you know in a, in a financial status where, where that choice is not available to them. And I would hope that other Afro-Americans could become aware of that. That it, it can be a desirable place for, for a diverse group of people and that opportunity exist across the board.
Rita Awan: Well I’ve been trying to convince them. I mean I have very good friends that would not even come to see me because I moved to Kirkwood. And that is because of, I mean (long pause) maybe the way the area had been covered prior to um, gentrification. But they still have all of these perceptions that Kirkwood is a very dangerous place to come.
Interviewer 2: But it’s, do you think that some, it’s- for people that are from Atlanta, is some of it the fact that they may have relatives that live here? This is where my parents moved from?
Rita Awan: They are not from Atlanta, which is very surprising to me. Which is very surprising to me because they’re from urban areas.
Interviewer 2: Yeah.
Rita Awan: And, and, and, and the other thing is when they start, when they look at the price of a home in Kirkwood. They’re like, “Well what am I getting for my money?”
Interviewer 2: (Laugh)
Interviewer 1: (Laugh)
Interviewer 2: Yeah.
Rita Awan: You know, really. What am I getting for my money?
Interviewer 3: That does make a lot of sense.
Rita Awan: Yes.
Interviewer 3: What’s up in the air.
(Laugh)
Interviewer 3: Um, last weekend I only met one couple, one couple of color. Rita Awan: Everybody else was, you know.
Interviewer 2: Where’s this?
Interviewer 3: Over at the new development. North [bound] park.
Interviewer 2: Uh-huh.
Interviewer 1: North [bound] park.
Interviewer 3: Yeah North [bound] park. And we walked through there, but then how much land you were getting. So we jump around, you know, cutting grass with scissors. (All laugh)And, it’s like who has that kind of money for that little bit of land. So.
Interviewer 2: What about, I have a question. What about schools, since your son is moving in that direction? School age. What do you think about Kirkwood schools?
Rita Awan: I don’t think that they are suitable for him. Um, and I don’t know if it starts at a community level, but I find it very disturbing that and, and I don’t believe in utopia. But I also know that change only begins with an attitude and it has to be cohesive attitude. There is no reason why um, Kirkwood schools are rated so low. Um, I see no reason why we should have to take our children-I don’t care if we are the city of Atlanta. I don’t see why I should have to be inconvenience to take my child out of Kirkwood to maybe Lake Claire or um, Centennial Place or where um, or whatever. Uh, when your same tax dollars should provide the same quality education across the board for all uh, students in uh, the city and state. So no, Trey won’t be going right now. I was hoping that uh, the schools would be up to par. But Trey will be five next year and I don’t think they are going to be where I want them to be for him to go.
Interviewer 1: Do you see any possibility for a grassroots effort to upgrade the quality of the schools? There, there is a group of concerned people in Kirkwood that’s trying to work in that direction.
I do. And I do believe that it will happen but it’s not happening---
Interviewer 1: fast enough.
Rita Awan: ----It, it fast enough. And I wouldn’t be selfish and just concentrate on my son because I know that a well educated population means that you have a better society and we definitely want a better community so I would work to help turn the schools around.
Interviewer 1: I agree with, with the need for a well-educated society. But I am not troubled with the selfish motivation that says I want the best for my child. And if that simulates the parent into doing more then the parent might to otherwise and then I am all for it.
Rita Awan: Mm-hmm. So, no. Uh, I don’t have a vote of confidence but I am definitely willing and have been working to help uh, with the uh, school system here. Because it’s not just my child, I mean all the children. Children are intelligent. Children are very um, inquisitive.
Interviewer 1: And they are the future.
Yeah, and, and they should have a resource where they can really utilize all of that adventure and, and they’re, they’re smart. And, and if we don’t do something about the schools here they’re going to [fall], move over to the [grass].
Interviewer 3: I have a question, I hope I can help if you need a comparison of the school. Which [schools] have you visited (interviewer inaudible for a few words, speaking too softly and far from speaker) to help better the schools have you?
Rita Awan: Uh, to actually sit there during the day and observed---
Interviewer 3: Not just sit there but to think of a comparison as to how they lack uh, uh, maybe lack in teaching skills as far as the teachers have. (Interviewer inaudible few words, same problem) parental support, the educational level, the education that they receive, have you?
Rita Awan: You know, I haven’t but you can basically just talk to the-uh if you go to the library and you talk to the children and they tell you basically um, the, the, the equipment and the materials that these-they have in the schools. You can listen to the way the children talk, you can, I mean you can listen and that tells, for me, that tells me enough right there. Um, so that’s about as far as I’ve gone.
Interviewer 3: All right, um, I’ve concerned because I have um, eventually entered [Natalie] at East Lake. And um, we’ve never had to transport to a better school, but I think a better school, school, a public school where and um, there is a lot of parental support. Um, the parents are much better educated so therefore they um, a lot of parents don’t have time to spend at school. They do a lot of traveling and our children don’t get the opportunity often times because they are coming from single parent homes. But I have observed East Lake and I don know that that is a school that diligently educates those children. They only difference I found at East Lake and maybe [Bradley] (interviewer inaudible) our children. [Bradley] is in the north side---
(Someone inaudible, mumbling, can’t tell who it is)
Interviewer 3: And that public school---
Rita Awan: Mm-hmm, this is Sandy Spring, isn’t it?
Interviewer 3: I think so. Over there on Collier (Interviewer inaudible few words, do understand that she is giving directions) On Collier Drive, behind that area back there, Northside drive. Private public schools is what I [help].
Okay.
Interviewer 1: It’s up, upscale neighborhood.
Interviewer 3: Very upscale. But, in listening to what the [families], you know, as they compared the students and the quality of education that they are getting is not in the schools, it’s at the home. So that, that is just an observation that I, that took at the time because is their impression. They, they adore discussing it with me. Well, these are my childhood friends, and this is all we talk about. But um, go to East Lake and---
Interviewer 2: Or even um---
Interviewer 3: ---And if necessary---
Interviewer 2: I want to be entered in our discussion. However um, the um, I, I was amazed when I first started going over to Kirkwood. Or too um, help me out here.