Oral History Project: Interview an Immigrant

Oral History Project: Interview an Immigrant.

Interviewee: Adrianna Johanna Merks (Ansems)

Interviewer: Hillary Merks

*Looking through a box with old pictures and documents*

Grammie: These are mostly old pictures of you fellas rather than... I don’t know if there are any old ones from Holland really. OH yes! This one here, this is me when I was in Holland.

Hillary: Yep.

Grammie: That one there, you know like a... that’s also a school picture.

Hillary: Is it? They had like family pictures?

Grammie: Yes they took family pictures.

Jane: Nice.

Grammie: I have other ones from when even I was younger because my teeth are missing *laughs* Not this one but I must have been younger, and Casey wasn’t on there, so you know like some of the older ones are on that one because who was in the picture depended on who you went to school with. Casey is here, then me, Gerald, Frank, and Ted. But there’s a whole bunch of them (meaning her siblings). You see this…

Hillary: That’s a good picture.

Grammie: Pardon?

Hillary: It’s a good picture.

Grammie: Yeah that’s a good picture. Let me see… now but you’d have to look… now I had those other ones I had in my purse for so long and I never did get them photocopied, and I wanted to because some people might want some like I think Frank and Marilyn wanted some of those pictures and I never did get them done, but I don’t think I can find any of those now *points to group school picture* that would be the only one I have in here. *Searches through the box* But anyways... OK why don’t you just ask me some questions?

Hillary: Where do you want to sit?

Grammie: Um… Can I just do something instead of just sitting?

Jane: Yeah that would work better right?

Grammie: Yes a natural kind of thing. Rather then sitting down.

Jane: Maybe I’ll go...?

Grammie: No I’m sure you can stay.

Hillary: Yeah you can stay.

Jane: Alright.

Grammie: She (meaning Hillary) would feel more comfortable if you were here. Or not?

Hillary: It doesn’t matter to me.

Grammie: I’ll make a cup of coffee for you (directed at Jane)

Jane: Oh no I’ll make it.

Grammie: Hillary would you like something to eat or drink?

Hillary: Oh no I’m good. I just had lunch before I came.

Grammie: Oh you did? Alright. Ok I don’t think there’s anything more in here that we can use *closes box*

Hillary: You want to keep your question sheet?

Grammie: Yes.

Will start transcribing when we get back on topic.

Grammie: Alright so the first question is “What part of the Netherlands were you from”? I’m from the small village of Galder in Noord-Brabant (North Brabant).

Hillary: What was it like there?

Grammie: What was it like there? Where I lived it would have been really ah... woods.

Hillary: Like in a small village?

Grammie: No I lived in the country. So it was…

Hillary: Really rural?

Grammie: Yeah it was rural, but I mean rural there would not be rural here. *talks about how rural it was in comparison to where we live but this part only makes sense if you know the area we live and the people* I mean there’s other people near because there was around 12 million people in half the size of Nova Scotia right? So it’s totally different. Where I live now (in Grand Pre on the Evangeline Beach in a slightly wooded area) they would think I live far far far away. No mans land. *laughs*

Jane: So there would have been a small village...?

Grammie: Yes but it was very small. There was a school, a grocery store, a pub, the church and that would basically be it. That is Galder.

Hillary: And would most of the people have been Catholic?

Grammie: Yes, the only people that were not Catholic would have been the police. I think there might have been one or two families in the whole community that were not Catholic.

Hillary: Why would only the police have not been Catholic?

Grammie: I… don’t know. When you’re 10 years old you don’t really ask that question.

Jane: Yeah.

Grammie: And the church that I went to it was probably the first foundation, the first church, was built around 1100.

Jane + Hillary: Oh wow.

Grammie: And then it was rebuild I think in the 1500s and then it went from being a church to being a school, being a house, back to being a church. With the reformation. And usually you had a church and then you would have a pub right next door. That was the norm over there. Especially in the Catholic areas.

Jane: And you went to mass everyday?

Grammie: No we didn’t. Because the church and the school weren’t really close to one another. And the church was really like a satellite church from another parish, like Canning to Wolfville or to Kentville. There wasn’t like a full time priest there. So he was there periodically. You had religious education in school everyday right? And the priest would come twice a week to help teach this. And you would say your prayers everyday. And what else?

Hillary: So what did your father do? Like his job?

Grammie: Oh he was a farmer.

Hillary: Yeah so what kind of farm did he run?

Grammie: They had different things; they had some cows, vegetables, and fruit. It wouldn’t have been huge compared to today.

Hillary: So what did your mother do?

Grammie: My mother was a mother. My mother had 12 children. *laughs*

Jane: She was busy.

Hillary: So how many brothers and sisters did you have?

Grammie: I have... I would have had 7 brothers, and 3 sisters. One of the brothers died very young.

Hillary: So what were the reasons your parents decided to leave the Netherlands? What were some of the main reasons?

Grammie: Ah... well after the war things were not as good and they really wanted for everyone (the sons) to farm and there really wasn’t an opportunity for everyone to farm. If anyone farmed it was usually the oldest in the family, just one, because there was no room really. And that’s a reason they went.

Hillary: So what year did they decide to leave?

Grammie: I think they probably decided to leave around 1950? But it took a few years because of the medical tests and things like that so they couldn’t just get out of there. Because my brothers heart, I don’t know exactly what was wrong with him, and also my mothers varicose veins. *laughs*

Jane: Oh really? Because of that?

Grammie: Isn’t that something?

Jane: Yeah.

Grammie: So varicose veins were one of the things…

Hillary: Maybe for flying?

Grammie: Yeah maybe.

Hillary: So what was the name of the brother that had the heart condition?

Grammie: John.

Hillary: And he had to go to Canada by a different route then the rest of the family right?

Grammie: Well they went through Belgium. Apparently whoever was doing the physical over there they were more lax then the ones in the Netherlands. So we only lived a short distance from the Belgium border, like a 10 minute walk. So it wasn’t a big thing.

Jane: And he was 18?

Grammie: Yeah he was 18.

Hillary: So he was older and able to travel by himself.

Grammie: Yes but he did come with us.

Hillary: He came with you but did he come on a different plane?

Grammie: No he came on the same flight.

Jane + Hillary: Oh.

Hillary: So what year did you guys leave and what month?

Grammie: July 27th, in 1953. I might have a card... *goes to search through the box for a while and doesn’t find the card*

Grammie: So what is the next question? *Grammie + Jane laugh*

Hillary: So why did your parents decide to come to Nova Scotia after living in Ontario for a few years?

Grammie: Because the land was cheaper over here then it was in Ontario. So everyone could farm. That’s the reason they came. The year we came here was 1959.

Hillary: Was there any sort of support system when you came to Canada?

Grammie: Well there probably was, in Ontario there would have been your church really. Your church would have been your main support system.

Hillary: So there was a separation between Catholic and Protestant Dutch immigrants? So they wouldn’t have interacted that much?

Grammie: The only thing is where we came to in Ontario there were very few Dutch Protestants. As far as we were concerned there weren’t any. There might have been some in the different areas. I think they came and grouped them all together kind of idea. Like a whole bunch of Dutch Catholics were sent to Cape Breton. And here in the Valley there was a separation of the two religions. But it wasn’t like that where we were in Ontario, they were all basically Catholic and they came from Noord-Brabant like we did. If they came from a different part they were probably Protestant.

Hillary: What was your first impression of Canada?

Grammie: Hot. It was HOT. It was July and it was hot and we were used to having shorter sleeves and I think everyone in out family had blisters on our arms the first year in July. It was so hot, we weren’t used to it. So yeah... I can still see them. Huge blisters.

Hillary: So do you remember anything from the plane?

Grammie: The flight, the stewardesses were nice and they gave us these papers that you would scratch and pictures would appear. We’d never seen something like that before.

Hillary: Was it a continuous flight?

Grammie: No we stopped in Iceland. Reykjavík or something. There is only one airport there. And we had to stay over there because the plane broke and they had to send another part to Iceland to repair the plane. One of the propellers wasn’t working. So we had to stay over there for a while.

Hillary: What was your first impression of Canada, like the buildings and the people?

Grammie: Oh the buildings, my mother always said the buildings in Ontario reminded her of Belgium, because of the style of the big brick houses. Not like here where they’re mostly wood.

Hillary: Was there any big differences you noticed between 1950’s Canada and the Netherlands? Like anything that you were like, “Whoa that’s different”.

Grammie: Yes there would have been because everyone had a car in Canada. Which very few people had in the Netherlands, and there wasn’t really a need because there was different transportation. Bikes were the normal transportation everyone used to move about. But over here in Canada, well, you didn’t see any bikes really. Everyone had a car. So just imagine. 16, 17, 18 year olds all of a sudden having these cars.

Jane: That was your brother’s?

Grammie: Yes and other boys. Like a whole group of people who had never driven before and had hardly ever seen a car before and all of a sudden got a vehicle.

Hillary: Gah. That must have been..,

Grammie: That was an experience.

*Everyone laughs*

Hillary: Could your father drive?

Grammie: Not when we first came, he’d never driven before coming to Canada. So he got a license and would drive us back and forth to school.

Hillary: So do you have any funny stories about the cultural differences?

Grammie: Cultural differences? I think the Dutch people were a little more short-tempered then the Canadians. They were more... hyper then the Canadians who were more lax in those days.

Hillary: They were hyper?

Grammie: Yes. Maybe because of the culture they came from, coming through the war… But then again I only knew a few Canadians, we didn’t have very much contact with them.

Hillary: So you guys were like in your own little closed community of Dutch Catholics?

Grammie: Yeah. Even though they lived all over the place but in Ontario if you have a farm every kilometer then it’s very widely spaced. So you’d visit Dutch people and most socializing was done at church, with Dutch people. They had their own dances and such at the church. The church was very important and a centre of the community. But I think that was true for non-Dutch people too. The church was much more important then it is today.

Hillary: So did you notice any big differences between the Dutch school system and the Canadian one?

Grammie: Differences... almost everything was different. I had never had a nun for a teacher before. In the Netherlands it was just regular teachers.

Hillary: You had nuns for teachers in Canada?

Grammie: Yes, Ursuline nuns. How’s that? *laughs* The Order of Ursuline. *laughs* Mother Viola was my teacher when I went to school at Sacred Heart.

Hillary: *laughs* That must have been different.

Grammie: Yeah because I’d never had a nun for a teacher. You wouldn’t think would you? You’d think we would have had that over in the Netherlands, not in Ontario. But we didn’t. That’s when I started being called “Jeanie”. The nuns gave me that name, before that people usually called me by my nickname, “Soncha”.

Hillary: How many Dutch people to Canadians in the school?

Grammie: Well if there were about 80 students total, because there would have been like three classrooms, then 60 or 70 were Dutch or Belgian. The rest were Canadian. I can only remember a couple in my class that were Canadian, the rest were all Belgian or Dutch.

Hillary: That must have been odd for them.

Grammie: Right. And the public school was right across the road. Very close.

Jane: So you went to the Catholic school, and the Canadians in your school would have been also Catholic.

Grammie: They were Catholic. The other ones (Protestants) would have been in the public school. But you didn’t really talk to those and you didn’t play with them. Ontario was still a little…

Hillary: Conservative?

Grammie: Yeah I think so.

Hillary: When you guys came to Ontario did you buy a farm right away?

Grammie: No, we bought a farm a couple years after coming from another Dutch family who were returning to the Netherlands. Before that my father and some of my older siblings worked on other peoples farms as farmhands or other sorts of jobs.