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United Nations COPUOS/LEGAL/T.691
Committee on the Peaceful Unedited transcript
Uses of Outer Space
Legal Subcommittee
691st Meeting
Thursday, 3 April 2003, 3 p.m.
Vienna
Chairman: Mr. Kopal (Czech Republic)
COPUOS/LEGAL/T.691Page 23
The meeting was called to order at 3.16 p.m.
The CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon distinguished delegates, I now declare open the 691st meeting of the Legal Subcommittee of the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Spaces.
This afternoon, I expect only to have a short meeting of the Subcommittee to consider agenda item 9, Proposals to the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space for New Items to be Considered by the Legal Subcommittee at its Forty-Third Session.
I will give you the floor Sir as soon as I read the opening text. Thank you. Please inscribe Chile on the list of speakers.
Proposals to the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space for new items to be considered by the Legal Subcommittee at its forty-third session (agenda item 9)
Distinguished delegates, I would now like to resume consideration of item 9 of our agenda, Proposals to the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space for New Items to be Considered by the Legal Subcommittee at its Forty-Third Session, in the Subcommittee Plenary.
I understand that informal consultations on agenda item 9 took place this morning, under the coordination of Mr. Niklas Hedman of Sweden, and that consensus was reached in these consultations on a proposed agenda for next year’s session of the Legal Subcommittee.
I would, therefore, like to begin by giving the floor to Mr. Niklas Hedman, Coordinator of these informal consultations, to allow him to report to the Subcommittee plenary on the outcome of these informal consultations. But prior to giving him the floor, I will give the floor, I will give the floor to the distinguished Ambassador for Chile.
Mr. R. GONZÁLEZ ANINAT (Chile) (interpretation from Spanish): Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. My delegation would like to make a statement and that on the item related to new proposals. Unfortunately, I think we have a procedural and a substantive problem here. My delegation is a small one, without the necessary resources, and we end up running about from one place to another. This applies to my country and other Latin American countries. We are bilateral, multilateral and competitive at times even, which prevents us from having equal opportunity participation conditions with other delegations. We just do not have the opportunity.
So my delegation, and I believe probably several, many, of the countries in the Latin American country group, have been informally consulting for a letter to the Director of the Office for Outer Space Affairs, with a copy to New York, and that to complain formally about the fact that parallel meetings are organized on questions that are of great sensitivity to developing countries. We consider this a lack of respect and, furthermore, this runs counter to the interest of the developing countries.
I would like to say that my delegation has no complaints against the Office for Outer Space Affairs. Quite the contrary. They have always done everything possible to accommodate our requests but this is a general situation, clearly designed to favour the interests of developed countries, very clear designed for that. We can see the list of participants. Here, we can see how many delegates are on each, the main members of each delegation and there is a surprise that can be had there. Some of our delegations have to beat speed records to be five minutes in one meeting, five minutes in another and against that we have the surprise, and here I come to my point of substance, and that is when you get to the meeting, you are informed, for example, that the proposal from Brazil on the remote sensing question was rejected with poor arguments, rejected because the principles on remote sensing are working well. Yes, they might be working very well, Mr. Chairman, but that in favour of the multinational undertaking data become more and more expensive, processed information is processed in the developed countries by multinationals and, it is just by chance, that we get information drawn from our own territories without taking into account one of the fundamental principles of the Charter of the United Nations which is respect or observance of sovereign access to natural resources.
So we reject outright what was said today and that basically by two or three developed countries whereby the principles are working very well on remote sensing. Those principles are not working. There is no accommodation for the current world scenario. These are subject to the discretion of developed countries as to how, when and in what form they might most generously choose to give data. I would urge those who rejected the Brazilian proposal outright please give a solid legal argument but do not treat us as if we were stupid.
Let us not go on letting people think that developing countries are ingenuous, naïve, innocent, knowing that the high level of commercialization of space activities and in the specific case of remote sensing, gives rise at least to some questions as to the benefits and advantages derived from it or activity being done by the private sector there, where the essential aim, after all, is profit. It is not charity, as far as I know. I have never come across any private undertaking with working for the purpose of charity for others, unless you think of convents, perhaps, as private undertakings.
However, from the strict legal point of view, and I would both urge, since on the first day, it was decided that the general exchange of views was just to be that, a general exchange of views and not a series of statements or debates. I would urge somebody to show me, with figures, not with rhetoric, raw figures, this company is spending so much for developing countries in remote sensing of agricultural resources, fishing resources, observation of mining or others that are considered strategic, which might be used for other purposes, but I want figures. Developing countries demand that we be given equal treatment, in other words, show us convincing arguments. It is very easy just to say into a microphone we are against this, the principles are working well, who can prove to me that they are working well. That can only be done through numbers, figures. And I would like to ask representatives of those countries, first of all, to talk with exactly of the various private undertakings and Presidents of multinationals, ask them for statements of the commercial space activity situation, ask them what percentage of that, in terms of processed information, is being devoted to tending to the needs of developing countries.
And in connection with this same point, I remember just a few days ago the Secretary of the Committee said that out of 9,000 satellites, there are only 500 that are operational. I would like to know out of the 500 how many belong to developed countries, how many belong to developing countries. I will not even put the question but it is pretty clear that the proportional difference is quite great. Thus, countries such as our own, having access to remote sensing information, they might be significant for our interests, is a low possibility.
I just wanted to make this statement so that it is quite clear that, here, what we have is a lack of political will with an outright refusal with that considerable effort made by Brazil, a country we respect greatly, that being rejected flatly. Other developed countries are asking us in a week’s time to just accept their proposal with veiled threats accompanying that regarding possible forms of international cooperation.
And third, Mr. Chairman, here there are some topics that you can talk about, others that you cannot. There are great efforts being made by Algeria, with a critical mass being arrived at, and my delegation will stand out and object when there is any attempt made to suspend the question dealt with by them because we could just come out and propose the suspension of other questions at the same time. And I am saying that with a great sense of responsibility because there was a great amount of informal consultation here at the latest hour leading up to negative reactions to what has gone on in the new topics.
I had an opportunity to read a very good speech of a special envoy of the distinguished delegation of the United States to the Geneva Conference on Disarmament, speaking about effective multilateralism, in other words, that is enough rhetoric, let us look at the results here. And here, in this forum, I would like to say that there is somebody who has just adopted that same position I proposed, effective and not rhetorical, multilateralism. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN: Thank you distinguished Ambassador for Chile for your statement on item 9 of our agenda. As to your first announcement that you addressed a letter to the Director and probably through him also to the offices in the Headquarters of the United Nations, for this purpose, I will give the floor to the Secretary to respond, if he finds it appropriate.
Mr. P. LÁLA (Secretary, Office for Outer Space Affairs): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am sorry, I am not personally aware of any letter so I cannot respond to it in any considerable way. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN: Yes. As far as the proposal of Argentina to include a new point on the agenda for the next session of our Subcommittee, my understanding is that the Chairman of the consultative group, Mr. Hedman, who is now about to report about the proceedings of these informal consultations, will summarize the results of these consultations and will also explain what is the status of individual proposals, including the proposal of the distinguished delegation of Brazil.
You wish to speak now? You have the floor Sir.
Mr. S. SAYÚS (Argentina) (interpretation from Spanish): Thank you very much. Just to clarify that the proposal was submitted by Brazil, co-sponsored by my country and others. I just wanted it noted that it is a proposal that was submitted by the distinguished representative of Brazil, co-sponsored by my country and others.
The CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much distinguished representative of Argentina that you drew my attention to the co-sponsorship of other delegations but I only said Brazilian proposal for reasons of time economy, it means as a technical designation of this proposal. I did not quote the exact title and the exact number and the list of co-sponsors.
The distinguished representative of Greece.
Mr. V. CASSAPOGLOU (Greece) (interpretation from French): Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. As I did not have an opportunity this morning to address the proposal submitted by the distinguished representative of Brazil, on behalf of several countries on satellite remote sensing. And since 1996, I believe, Greece has asked that the principles, and we have had it on the agenda since then, be transformed into an international treaty. I did not say this publicly at the formal session but Greece withdrew that proposal we have had on the floor since 1996 and Greece is associated in the proposal from Brazil and we insist further that this question should be on the agenda as of the next session of the Legal Subcommittee. We, too, believe that this item is extremely important. It is one which is of interest to countries that are observed without due payment. There are companies, private companies in particular, that make profits, and I might be simplistic, but they just sell pictures, if you wish, of specific countries without payment to observed countries and those countries which are observed have to pay to get their own picture. I am putting it in simplistic terms, as I have said, but this is just to describe the present situation.
So, I, too, Mr. Chairman, must insist there is a need to have on the agenda of the Subcommittee, the examination of this question. And if I may on the side, a discussion on this important question does not necessarily presuppose that we are initiating negotiations on a treaty. First of all, you have to clarify all the ins and outs of the problem, even the Brazilian proposal at present does not include a proposal for a text for a treaty on satellite remote sensing.
And, through you, if I may, I would like to thank our colleagues on the Brazilian delegation for their report which took me back to the glorious days of our Subcommittee, just 15 years ago or so. Thank you.
The CHAIRMAN (interpretation from French): I thank the distinguished representative of Greece. Perhaps you could elaborate on those ideas. They are very interesting. I would not say they are without merit. Quite the contrary. Perhaps this could be elaborated on further in informal consultations because these matters, including the proposal from the Latin American States on remote sensing was submitted in informal consultations, led by Mr. Hedman and I think perhaps we should give Mr. Hedman a chance to inform the Subcommittee reporting on consultations, after which we can indeed discuss the matter. That, I believe, would be the right procedure please.
Mr. V. CASSAPOGLOU (Greece) (interpretation from French): Sorry, but I would like to react immediately to the conclusion you drew. As I said, at the beginning, I was not here this morning in order to contribute to the discussion of the group led by my colleague and friend from Sweden. But, as the informal consultations are exactly that, informal, views expressed are not recorded in any way, then officially we feel we should give our own views, ideas, attitude, and I would not want to bypass the functions of the Working Group, these consultation groups are most useful, first of all, to be able to meet and to be able to find a solution. But if it is a question of formally giving our official views, or those of our delegation, then we should be able to address the question publicly, as I have just done. I thank you Mr. Chairman.