OREM CITY CORPORATION
CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
November 18, 1969
Orem City Council met in regular session Tuesday, November 18, 1969, at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. Present were Mayor Winston Crawford, Chairman; Councilmen Donald Shaw, Paul Washburn, Stanley Leavitt, and John Jones. Robert Dove, absent, excused. Also present were City Manager Earl Wengreen, Engineer Russell Brown, Attorney Frank Butterfield, Assistant City Manager Odell Miner, Clerk Virginia Jensen, and Recorder Anne Cooper.
Others were in attendance as listed:
Karen L. ChesnutGeneral Interest
Larry W. BagleyGeneral Interest
Rich MahoneyGeneral Interest
JaLynn RasmussenGeneral Interest
Jeff BannerGeneral Interest
Clyde R. NaylorBurning Tree Acres
Harvey PaceBuilding Inspections
Ernest R. SummersBuilding Inspections
Chester P. KocherhansBid Opening
Roscoe D. CarrollCouncilman-elect
Harley M. GillmanCouncilman-elect
John MuirheadZone Change
George RosemanZone Change
Mrs. George RosemanZone Change
Richard BaldwinZone Change
Ronald CarterZone Change
T. M. WilliamsZone Change
William W. WilkinsZone Change
John R. BenchZone Change
Garth B. NielsonZone Change
Rowena NielsonZone Change
John M. NicolZone Change
Margaret N. NicolZone Change
Arlene L. BascomZone Change
Barbara LawlorZone Change
Howard H. BarronZone Change
LaVenda R. BarronZone Change
Maurice E. SabinZone Change
E. Wayne AlredZone Change
Robert M. AlredZone Change
Mollie AlredZone Change
Frank A. JansonZone Change
Mildred GardinerZone Change
J. Max GardinerZone Change
Harold O. WilliamsZone Change
Gordon E. Cowan, Sr.Zone Change
Afton L. CowanZone Change
W. W. CarpenterZone Change
Jean CarpenterZone Change
Harold LittleZone Change
Robert G. JensenZone Change
Thelma M. RichinsZone Change
Arthur C. RichinsZone Change
Katheryn WebbZone Change
Howard L. WebbZone Change
Verdun A. WattsZone Change
LeRue E. ThurstonZone Change
Keith S. JeppsonZone Change
Fred HansenZone Change
Russell W. ParkZone Change
Clifford FergusonZone Change
Glenda FergusonZone Change
Leo H. BastianZone Change
Ray E. HanksZone Change
Wilson LeeZone Change
Charles B. PaceZone Change
Kenneth KendallZone Change
Maxine KendallZone Change
Maurine SumsionZone Change
Wm. G. SumsionZone Change
Marilyn MansfieldZone Change
Ronald C. MansfieldZone Change
Lynn G. HowarthZone Change
Mary HooleyZone Change
LaVar R. HooleyZone Change
Ray S. WilliamsZone Change
Louise L. LittleZone Change
DeLance W. SquireZone Change
Dorothy H. SquireZone Change
Doris TregaskisZone Change
Wilma J. AdamsZone Change
George J. Adams Jr.Zone Change
Zora H. HolmanZone Change
Joan I. HerlinZone Change
Wayne R. HerlinZone Change
Jackie HeapsZone Change
Richard V. HeapsZone Change
Clarice HurdZone Change
Royal C. HurdZone Change
Mervyn B. GardnerZone Change
Jane W. ChristensenZone Change
Manlyn J. ChristensenZone Change
Raymond R. StewartZone Change
Zeno M. AdamsZone Change
Verda S. AdamsZone Change
Ava StewartZone Change
Lynn BeckZone Change
Mae BeckZone Change
Wilberta M. BartholomewZone Change
Blanche MooreZone Change
Glen MooreZone Change
K. E. CrossZone Change
Peggy LittleZone Change
Colleen CordnerZone Change
Virginia HansenZone Change
Richard L. BradshawZone Change
Arvilla J. BradshawZone Change
Lloyd H. CrapoZone Change
Linnie CrapoZone Change
W. Robert AndersenZone Change
Verda AndersenZone Change
Carl W. ReedZone Change
Angie ReedZone Change
Lucile B. FarnsworthZone Change
Howard FarnsworthZone Change
Robert R. NewellZone Change
James T. DukeZone Change
Bruce G. BurgonZone Change
Michael AllenZone Change
Bryce HendricksonZone Change
Grant MildenhallZone Change
Ursula R. RussellZone Change
Faye E. ConnellyZone Change
DeVon M. OgdenZone Change
J. M. LarsenZone Change
Boyd E. AsayZone Change
Douglas RobertsZone Change
Jack K. HansenZone Change
Rudy MoeZone Change
DeLynn HeapsZone Change
Gary Ray BascomZone Change
Sidney M. RussellZone Change
Wally WoodburyZone Change
Josephine ZimmermanPress
Mike Kelly, Mike Kelly (M K)Productions, met with the Council to report on his holding public dances at the Union Hall without a dance license. Mr. Kelly stated that he has been operating under the license issued to the Jeff Allen Promotional Agency, as a partner, for the past four months, even though he has a booking agency of his own. That the police department was aware of this, and had made no objection until last week when a leaflet advertising the dance came out which depicted a police officer as a band leader.
Police Chief Simmons stated that the badge on the police officer's cap on the leaflet could denote derogatory names that are used for police, such as "pig" and "fascist."
Winston Crawford stated that the police department is trying to reduce sources of drugs available to the young people.
Attorney Butterfield stated that he is unable to determine in which way Mike Kelly is connected with Jeff Allen Promotional Agency.
After further consideration, Mike Kelly was advised that Jeff Allen come in with evidence of his affiliation with Mike Kelly.
The City Recorder reported that some cities in Utah County are paying the maximum authorized by State Code in amount of $20.00 per day to Judges of Election. The reason for this action is that Carr Printing had inserted the maximum amount on vouchers that were sent out, also, that Judges of Election have been increasingly hard to persuade to act.
The City Recorder suggested paying $15.00 for the 13 hours polls are open, plus $1.50 per hour over the 13 hours to a maximum of $20.00, stating this will probably be the rate the County will set next year.
After discussion, motion was made by Donald Shaw, seconded by John Jones, to pay Election Judges $15.00 for thirteen hours work and $1.50 per hour over the thirteen hour base to a maximum of $20.00. Motion passed unanimously.
Clyde Naylor presented Plat B of Burning Tree Acres planned dwelling group. After discussion, motion was made by Stanley Leavitt, seconded by John Jones, to approve Plat B of Burning Tree Acres and authorize signatures, subject to the approval of the plat by the City Engineer, and authorize accepting an improvement bond in the amount established by the City Engineer. Motion passed unanimously.
Public Hearing was called at 8:00 p.m. at which time public consideration was given to zone the following property:
Notice is hereby given that the City Council of Orem City will hold a Public Hearing on November 18, 1969 at the hour of 8:00 p.m. at which time Public consideration will be given to a recommendation of the Orem City Planning Commission, that the following described territory be changed from R-l-A to C-3.
Beginning at the existing C-3 boundary line at 1000 South and 600 East, thence north along the 600 East line to the south side of 900 South, thence east along the south side of 900 South to the east side of 750 East, thence south along the east side of 750 East Street to 1000 South, thence west along the existing zone to the point of beginning.
also
Starting at the present C-3 Zone line at approximately three hundred fifty four feet west of the intersection of 800 East and 1300 South, thence north 185 feet, thence east 100 feet, thence south 95 feet, thence east 9 feet, thence south 90 feet, thence west 109 feet to the point of beginning.
Due to the large number of people attending the public hearing, motion was made by Paul Washburn to adjourn and reassemble at the Little Theatre of Orem High School to hear the comments and opinions of the people in attendance. The motion was seconded by John Jones, and passed unanimously.
The meeting reconvened in the Little Theatre of Orem High School at 8:15 p.m. by motion of John Jones, seconded by Paul Washburn, and passed unanimously.
Oral Comments were as follows:
Winston Crawford: We have already had a motion that this meeting be reconvened here at the Orem High School at the Little Theatre. Who was it that moved that? Jack Jones, seconded by Paul Washburn. All in favor say aye.
Councilmen: Aye
Winston Crawford: Any opposed? We would like to conduct this hearing tonight about the same as the State Road would conduct a hearing or any other hearings so that we can get as much evidence and as many people speaking as want to speak and if there are groups that are represented here, if one person talks for a group that is fine. I don't know how long you want to stay, but we would like to go ahead. The hearing is called to order now. I think you have all read the information in the newspaper that there is a proposal that was put to the Planning Commission that a certain area as described in the paper be rezoned from R-1-A to C-3 zone.
Vern Dunn: R-1, it is R-1.
Winston Crawford: R-1, fine. My mistake, Vern Dunn.
Someone: May we have a little more explanation on what area is going to be rezoned?
Winston Crawford: We will get into that in just a minute. So that we will see the whole particular, the request has been made by the developers of the shopping mall namely, Mr. Woodbury, Mr. Heaps, and Mr. Brown, with Mr. Woodbury and Mr. Heaps are here with us tonight. But before we hear any comments, I think it would be wise for us to see the area and have Mr. Woodbury explain what this area is, what is anticipated, and a few of the problems connected with it, and why we are doing it. Now, if this is satisfactory, Mr. Woodbury, we would like you to come up and explain it and if we could hold up any maps for you while you are explaining it we would be glad to do so.
Mr. Woodbury: Stand it in front of the pulpit, Mayor.
Someone: Now he can't see it himself there.
Mr. Woodbury: I can see it Mayor if you turn it just a little. Stand it there, and then they mightbe able to see it all. Actually, I don't know whether you can see it or not but the area is crosspatched in green is the area which we are talking about which is the area from 10th to 9th South adjacent to the center on the north and the one lot which was the Urie lot adjacent to the hilltop up out on 13th South on the new diagonal. The reason for this request is really rather simple. First of all, when the diagonal was put in, the location they finally decided on was about 100 feet further to the north than the ones that was on the preliminary plans that we had a hearing on and was approved. And certainly we have no control over that and are not critical of that result, but that did resolve in decreasing the available area by a couple of acres. And it also changed our access problem slightly, but that is not material to this discussion. We have worked now, Iwas not involved when this matter originally came up, I got into the picture afterwards, but we have been working now for four full years to get this thing materialized. And as we get down to the nitty gritty with the department stores, each department store increased its size. Z.C.M.I. increased its size, initial size from 120,000 to 150,000 feet plus T.B.A. that is tire, battery, and accessory store freestanding. J. C. Penney actually didn't increase the number of square feet of the store that it will ultimately build but instead of building it on three stories, they want it on two stories, and as a result it added about half again to the amount of land taken up by the store and subtracted that much from the off-street parking area. It is our judgment, and certainly the judgment of those who are advising us on the area of regional center planning, that there should be the possibility of ultimately locating a third department store though it may be smaller in area, but if you don't do this at such time as the trade area is expanded, it doubles, let's say, on its present size. There is a real likelihood that a couple of other department stores will get together and form another regional center and dilute the present center by forming another strong nucleus. Whereas,if there is room for a third department store, the stronger the department stores that might be considering locating could be located at some future date in the center. Now, we have had demands for a third department store, a smaller one right along, but we feel that the present trade areais not large enough to justify that much additional store area, so have not contemplated going with one initially. But all of the plans have had since the preliminary phase has made provision fora smaller third department store at a future date. The increased size of the two present department stores are such that should we go, ever want to put in a third department store in the future, we would be unable to do so because of the fact that we would restrict the off-street parking below what we agreed with the Urban Land Institute recommendation as to what is the ideal situation for a shopping center to have off-street parking. It would be a mistake to put the center in with inadequate off-street parking because this would force people to park in residential neighborhoods, and other areas, and certainly they should park within the parking area in the center, and we certainly subscribe to a sound parking ratio, and I am sure the City does, and it is in the best interest, we think, of the commercial developer of the center, the stores, and the community as a whole to have adequate parking. As a result, the sum total of these things makes it so that we are so restricted in size of what we can build in this situation that it seems very desirable to add additional land. Also, we had originally planned an outlying center for grocery purposes that wasn't connected to the main mall for which we called the convenience goods center which might have hardware, maybe a laundry and dry cleaning pickup station, this type of thing. This type of thing, you want service directly to your car from, and that the size of that would be extremely restricted because of the increased size of the department stores, if we were to stay with the present size. There is one other factor, and that is that we have contemplated right along with the 10th South, would be the street on the northerly side of the center. And there is a jog in that street, as we all know, when we get down to 5th East, you have a jog over to another street, and it seemed desirable now before there were further development in the area, to suggest adding additional ground to the center to create more flexibility so that it could be developed along with the satellite types of things that are necessary. That is to say, the offices of professional buildings that may want to be right adjacent, and this type of thing, without the restriction in accordance with a planning program, a preconceived plan of the layout. Certainly the success of it depends upon its being an integrated plan so that there is proper relationship between the stores, between the buildings, proper traffic circulation, proper balance of the traffic, and proper egress and ingress, particularly at the peak hours and peak seasons of the year. Certainly we think economically it's to the advantage of the community to create as strong a Center as possible, and we think that the Center should certainly, within the first five years time, we would expect that it would have gross sales in the neighborhood of at least $60,000a square foot and our current contemplation was approximately 600 to 620,000 total gross square feet including the department stores, and this would be plus another 40 maybe, about 650 altogether, if an additional ten acres would be plus another 40 maybe, about 650 altogether, if an additional ten acres or so were added to the center, to the flexibility, it would permit a maximum additional square footage which might increase it up to somewhere between 725 to 750 thousand total square feet in the total long range development of all the facilities. If the facilities did $60 a square foot, you have 700,000 square feet that would be a gross sales volume of 42 million dollars a year, with the half percent sales tax, that represents a contribution of $210,000 to the City of Orem directly in addition to the property tax revenues, and this type of thing, attributed to this very expensive improvement, and in addition to the fact that there can't be much question of what this would reorient the entire County so that this becomes the center of the County, it becomes the center of the trade area, it becomes the focal point. This map is a little bit deceiving when you don't see it in perspective because when you draw something on a piece of paper, you don't feel the scale, but it might be interesting for you to note that if you look at this on the aerial photograph which we had, the total size of this center is almost exactly the size of the entire downtown Provo. It is not just a block or two blocks, it's all the blocks in downtown Provo that are used commercially. And if you just superimpose this on top of the map of downtown Provo it takes the whole town. Now this, of course, is integrated though with all the stores planned and interrelated for proper relationship of parking and this type of thing. It is for that purpose, Mr. Mayor, that we requested an extension of the zoning into the undeveloped area which was the only direction you could logically go based on present development, without, and do the least possible upsetting the program, and create the flexibility that we think is desirable both from the developer standpoint and the standpoint of letting the Center gain the ultimate balance that is desirable to make it the outstanding Center in the State of Utah. And I believe that is what it will be if we are given the opportunity to have that additional flexibility. Any other questions?