Chart Listing - Hereditary Depravity
Chart Listing -Total Depravity / Original Sin
1
Affirmative
2.Ezekiel 18:19-20 The Son Shall Not Bear The Iniquity Of Father
3.Ecclesiastes 7:29 God Hath Made Man Upright
55.Ezekiel 28:15Created PerfectTill Iniquity Was Found In Him
4.Deuteronomy 32:5 Corrupted Themselves
5.II Sam 12:23 How Did David Know He Would See Son Again?
6.Isaiah 59:2 Your Iniquities Have Separated Between You & God
7.Isaiah 53:6 Born Astray Or Gone Astray?
8.Jeremiah 19:4 Children Called “Innocents”
9.Romans 9:11 Neither Having Done Any Good Or Evil
10.II Corinthians 5:10 Done In His Body
11.Hebrews 4:15 Did Jesus Inherit Sin?
12.James 1:14-15 Temptation Leads To Sin
13.The Definition Of Sin
14.Sin Is Something You DO, Not Something You Inherit
15.Judged According To Our Works
16.Whose Sins Separate Us From God?
17.God Commands Us Not To Sin
18.Man Has The Ability To Choose
19.Man Wills (Chooses)
20.The Word Of God Is God’s Power To Save
Rebuttal
21.Job 21:7-8 "Non-Elect Do Not Die In Infancy"
22.Ecclesiastes 7:29 God Makes Man Upright At Baptism?
23.Ecclesiastes 7:29 Inventions Like Light Bulbs?
24.Jeremiah 31:29-30 If Ezekiel 18:3,20 Is Spiritual Death, Then At One Time Guilt Was Inherited ?
25.Ezekiel 18 The Context
26.Jesus Was Virgin Born, Thus Exempting Him From Corruption
Negative
27.What Is The Issue?
28.Exodus 20:5 Visiting The Iniquity Of Fathers Upon The Children
29.Job 14:4 Who Can Bring A Clean Thing Out Of An Unclean?
30.Job 25:4 How Can He Be Clean That Is Born Of A Woman?
31.Psalms 14:1-3 Universal Effect, Therefore Universal Cause?
32.Psalms 14:3 TOGETHER Become Filthy
33.Psalms 51:5 In Sin Did My Mother Conceive Me
34.Psalms 58:3 Wicked Are Estranged From The Womb
35.Psalms 58:4 Serpent Is Poisonous By BIRTH
36.Jeremiah 17:9 Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things
37.John 6:44 No Man Can Come To Me, Except Father Draw Him
38.John 8:43, II Tim 3:7, II Pet 2:14 Sinner Cannot, Never Able
39.John 8:47 Must Be Of God To Hear God?
40.John 12:40 God Blinds And Hardens
53.Acts 16:14 God Opened Lydia’s Heart
41.Romans 3:10-11 There Is None Righteous
42.Romans 5:12-21 By One Man Sin Entered Into The World
43.Romans 5:12 “In Whom”?
44.Romans 5:12,19 Jackie Robinson Illustration
45.Romans 8:7 Carnal Mind Cannot Be Subject To God
46.I Cor2:14 Natural Man Can Not Know The Things Of God
47.I Corinthians 15:22 - Infants Die Physically Proves Their Guilt?
48.Ephesians 2:1 Dead In Trespasses
49.Ephesians 2:3 Were By Nature The Children Of Wrath
50.Ephesians 2:3 By Birth Or By Choice?
51.II Tim 2:25, Acts 11:18, 5:31 God Gives Repentance
52.Hebrews 7:9-10 Levi Paid Tithes In Abraham’s Loins
54.Can A Man Change His Own Heart ?
1
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
This verse answers the question of this debate:
Does the son bear the iniquity of the father?
The following is God's answer to that question:
v.19When the son hath done that which is lawful & right, ... he shall surely live
v.20The soul that sinneth, it shall die
v.20son shall not bear the iniquity of the father
v.20the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him
And so I don't inherit the sin of my biological father (nor the sin of Adam), and neither did Seth inherit the sin of Adam.
God says "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father." My opponent says just the opposite.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 - God Hath Made Man Upright
God made men upright; but they have sought out many devices. (NASB)
What does upright” mean?:
- Dictionary.com - righteous, honest, or just - so that is how God made us
- Psalms 25:8 Good and upright is the Lord - so that is how God is
- Micah 7:2there is none upright among men - not upright means sinful
The Bible says God makes mankind (NIV)upright. This is theopposite of my opponent's position, that man is born with inherited original sin.
How do I know Ecclesiastes 7:29 means God made every man (as in mankind, Genesis6:7) upright, and not just that Adam was created upright in the creation?:
Because 2nd part of verse tells why man is not still upright. It is because "they(plural, not just Adam) have sought out manydevices(plural, not just Adam's one original sin)." [20,28 context about many/all sinners, Gen 6:12 all flesh had corrupted his way]
Eccl 7:29b implies that if a man didn’t seek out (sinful, v.20) “schemes” (NKJV), he would be upright. This contradicts my opponent's position that a man would not be upright (due to his inherited sin), even if he never committed personal sin.
God makes man upright = answer to this debate
Deuteronomy 32:5 – Corrupted Themselves
they have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
- "corrupted" implies clean beforehand, right?
- they corrupted themselves - Adam did not do it
- this corruption occurred intheir life, not before birth
Gen 6:12 God looked upon the earth & it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
My opponent thinks Adam’s sin corruptspeople (at their birth). But these passages prove my position; that people corrupt themselves(after their birth).
II Samuel 12:23
How Did David Know HeWould See His Son Again?
. now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
First of all, if David's baby inherited sin, consistency would demand that he went to everlasting punishment (Romans6:23).
No matter how my opponent gets David’s infant son into heaven, I still want to know, how could David know that his son was going to heaven? How could David know that his son was of the elect?
Since it’s impossible to tell if an infant is one of my opponent’s “elect,” the only alternative is that David knew his son did not inherit sin, and of course did not have any personal sin, and so he went to heaven on that basis.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
The Israelites’ sins (not Adam’s sin) separated them spiritually from God.
Before the Israelites’ sin, they were not separated from God. This contradicts my opponent’s position that they would have already been separated by the “one sin of Adam.”
Born Astray Or Gone Astray?
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way
II Peter 2:15have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray
“Gone astray” means we didn’t start out astray, right? And that the fault for our being astray from God lies squarely on our own shoulders, right?
Jeremiah 19:4
Children Called “Innocents”
Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, … and have filled this place with the blood of innocents
- this verse is referring to burning “their sons (children)with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal” – verse 5)
- compare to Jesus being called “innocent” in Matt 27:4
This contradicts my opponent’s position that children are not really “innocent,” because they are born with original sin.
Romans 9:11
For the children (speaking of Jacob and Esau) being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
This verse proves that infants, before they are born, have done nothing good or evil; that there is nothing they could be judged upon, good or bad. This contradicts my opponent's position, because he teaches there is something a baby could be judged negatively on: inherited original sin.
II Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Three key words:
done - we will be judged by things that we do, not by something that we inherit, as my opponent says.
his - we will be judged by things that we do, not by something Adam did.
body - we will be judged by things that we do while in our body, not by things done after we are in our body (as the Mormons teach), or things done before we are in our body, as my opponent teaches.
Supposed inherited sin would not be something a person did in his body would it? If there were such a thing as inherited sin (which there is not), this verse would provewe are not going to be judged by it.
God says a person will be judged by the things done in his body. My opponent says we will also be judged by things done by someone else before we even had a body. Who do you believe?
Did Jesus Inherit Sin?
The consequences of the inherited sin/depravity theory would be that Jesus inherited sin/depravity, because He became a man. But contrary to that, Heb4:15 says that Jesus was "without sin."
Notice that Jesus:
•had the same flesh and blood as us - Hebrews 2:14a“… as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same”
•was made like us - Hebrews 2:17a “Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren”
- “tempted like as we are” – Hebrews4:15
Jesus did not inherit sin or depravity, and since we are like him, then neither do we !
James 1:14-15 – Temptation Leads To Sin
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
This passage tellsthe sequence of events that lead to sin & spiritual death:
- a man is drawn away of his own lust (desire)
- he is enticed (tempted thru that desire)
- that lust conceives (the yielding)
- sin results
- spiritual death is the consequence
This passage proves an infant is not born sinful and spiritually dead (as my opponent teaches), because spiritual death results from lust, temptation, yielding to the temptation, and finally sin ("transgression of the law" – IJohn 3:4), things an infantcannot do.
Contrary to James 1:14-15, my opponent teaches infants can be spiritually dead without ever having desire, without ever being tempted, without ever yielding to the temptation, without ever sinning.
The Definition Of Sin
Vines•a missing of the mark
•a sinful deed, an act of sin
Thayer•to miss the mark
•to do or go wrong
•violate God's law
•evil deed, … a bad action
•that which is done wrong
God•sin is the transgression of the law - I John 3:4
•to him that knoweth to do good, &doeth it not, to him it is sinJames 4:17
Sin is not something that can be inherited; it is something that you do. It is a missing of the mark, a deed, an act, something you do, it is going wrong, a violation, an action, a transgression, leaving off something that should be done.
Sin isn’t a trait that can be inherited like blond hair. It is an actionwe do (like riding a bike). It makes about as much sense to say we inherit "washing our hands" as it does to say we inherit sin. You can’t inherit washing your hands.
God's definition of sin ("transgression of law") rules out the idea of inheriting sin
Sin Is Something You Do,Not Something You Inherit
Sin is something you do (like riding a bike or washing your hands), not something you inherit (like blond hair). Proof:
Matthew 13:41 and them which do iniquity
John 3:20For every one that doeth evil
Romans 2:9 upon every soul that doeth evil
Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong
III John verse 11 but he that doeth evil
I Peter 3:12 the Lord is against them that do evil
I Peter 2:22 Whodid no sin
Proverbs 2:14 Who rejoice to do evil
Romans 13:4 But if thou do that which is evil
Likewise, righteousness is something that you do – I John 3:7:
..let no man deceive you: he that doethrighteousness is righteous ..
Not one passage teaches the guilt of sin can
be transferred from one person to another.
Judged According To Our Works
Revelation 22:12to give every man according as his work shall be
Rev 20:13 they were judged every man according to their works
Matt 16:27 then he shall reward every man according to his works
II Timothy 4:14the Lord reward him according to his works
I Peter 1:17the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work
Judged According To:
•Our works - not something we inherit as my opponent is teaching.
•Our Works - not Adam's work as my opponent is teaching.
My opponent really believes we will be judged based upon nothingwe do !
Whose SinsSeparate Us From God ?
Whose sins cause our separation from God, Adam's or our own?
Isaiah 59:2 your iniquities have separated between you & your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that He will not hear
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out …
These verses prove our own sins cause our spiritual separation from God, that our own sins are the only ones that need forgiving. The Bible never teaches somebody else's sins will cause our spiritual death; or that we need to be forgiven of somebody else's sins.
Whose sins will we be held responsible for? Adam's? Not a chance!
God Commands Us Not To Sin
Exodus 20:20 - And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Psalm 4:4 - Stand in awe, andsin not: commune with your own heart …, and be still …
I Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God …
I John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Why would God command us not to sin if my opponent’s position is correct that we are born so totally depraved that we can’t help from sinning almost continuously?
Man Has The Ability To Choose
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Psalms 119:30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.
Matthew 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
My opponent's inherited depravity position is such that man has no ability to choose to do right. But the above scriptures indicate otherwise!
Man Wills (Chooses)
Man Wills Either To Serve God:
John 7:17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself
Revelation22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Or Not To Serve God:
John 5:40ye willnot come to me, that ye might have life.
My opponent's position is that the inherited depravity of man is such that he has no ability to choose (will) to do right. But the above scriptures indicate otherwise!
The Word Of GodIs God’s Power To Save
Romans 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation …
Rom 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God
Psalms 119:50b thy word hath quickened (made alive) me
I Peter 1:23Being born again … by the word of God
James 1:21 receive… the … word, which is able to save your soul
I Corinthians 1:18 the preaching of the cross … is the power of God.
I Corinthians 4:15b in Christ . I have begotten you through the gospel
Eph 6:17b and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God
John 8:32 ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free
John 17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth
James 1:18Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul
II Thessalonians 2:14Whereunto He called you by our gospel
Men are made upright by God (Eccl 7:29), then go astray (Isaiah53:6) corrupting themselves (Deut 32:5), but God uses His word to draw us back (John 6:44-45).