Daily Summary
CEC Review Hearings – Wuskwatim Projects
Primary Agenda Items:
1.) Presentation by Steve Topping (Director of Water for Manitoba Water Stewardship, Government of Manitoba) on the licencing process under the Manitoba Water Power Act; and cross examination of Mr. Topping and his colleague Gord Hannon of Manitoba Justice.
2.) Brief presentation by Larry Strachan (Project Administration Team (PAT) Chair and Director of Environmental Approvals Branch of Manitoba Conservation) on the sequence and content of the overall licencing and review process; and cross examination of Mr. Strachan and his colleague Trent Hreno (Technical Advisory Committee Chair and PAT member).
3.) Continuation of Clean Environment Commission (CEC) cross examination of Manitoba Hydro / NCN (MH/NCN) on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS).
Date: May 11, 2004
Hearing Day: 22
Location: Winnipeg (Radisson Hotel)
Summary of Speakers & Presentations:
1. Steve Topping, Director of Water for Manitoba Water Stewardship, Government of Manitoba – made a presentation covering the licensing process under the Water Power Act, and the general nature of the Act within the provincial policy context. Water and water powers are a provincial jurisdiction, with the Water Power Act now administered through Manitoba Water Stewardship rather than Manitoba Conservation.
2. Gord Hannon, Civil Legal Counsel Services for Manitoba Justice – joined Mr. Topping in responding to cross examination questions.
3. Larry Strachan, Project Administration Team (PAT) Chair and Director of Environmental Approvals Branch of Manitoba Conservation – made a brief presentation on the overall licencing and review process, outlining the specific sequence and content of the process specific to the Wuskwatim projects.
4. Trent Hreno, Chair of the Federal-Provincial Wuskwatim Technical Advisory Committee (TAC), Manager of the Environmental Land Use Approvals Section of the Environmental Approvals Branch of Manitoba Conservation – joined Mr. Strachan in responding to cross examination questions.
5. Byron Williams, Counsel for Consumers Association of Canada / Manitoba Society of Seniors (CAC/MSOS) – questioned presenters
6. Jean Teillet, Counsel for Manitoba Metis Federation (MMF) – questioned presenters
7. Dan Benoit, Natural Resources Advisor to MMF – accompanied Ms. Teillet
8. Merrell-Ann Phare, Consultant for the Community Association of South Indian Lake (CASIL) – questioned presenters
9. Caroline Bruyere, Elder of Sagkeeng First Nation (private) – questioned Mr. Topping
10. Doug Bedford, MH/NCN Counsel – questioned Mr. Topping and Mr. Hannon
11. Ms. Rosenberg, MH/NCN Counsel – questioned Mr. Strachan and Mr. Hreno
CEC Panel and counsel
12. Gerard Lecuyer, Chair of the CEC Wuskwatim panel – chaired, asked questions of presenters and MH/NCN
13. Terry Sargeant, CEC panel member – asked questions of presenters and MH/NCN
14. Robert Mayer, CEC panel member – asked questions of presenters and MH/NCN
15. Kathi Avery Kinew, CEC panel member – asked questions of presenters and MH/NCN
16. Harvey Nepinak, CEC panel member – asked a question of MH/NCN
17. Doug Abra, CEC counsel – asked questions of presenters and MH/NCN
MH/NCN Panel responding to cross examination on the EIS
18. Ed Wojczynski, MH Division Manager of Power Planning and Development – responded to cross-examination questions
19. David Hicks, MH/NCN consultant on transmission line impacts (ND Lea Consulting Engineers and Planners) – responded to cross examination questions
20. George Rempel, MH/NCN consultant on environmental assessment (Intergroup Consultants Ltd.) – responded to cross examination questions
21. Stuart Davies, MH/NCN consultant on environmental impacts on wildlife (North/South Consultants Inc.) – responded to cross examination questions
22. Cam Osler, MH/NCN consultant on socio-economic effects (Intergroup Consultants Ltd.) – responded to cross examination questions
23. Elvis Thomas, MH/NCN, NCN Councillor – responded to cross examination questions
24. Sam Dysart, NCN Elder – gave the opening prayer
Motions filed/Rulings and other procedural matters:
None
Documents / Evidence Filed:
Exhibits
MC-1001: Slide presentation of Steve Topping, Director of Water for Manitoba Water
Stewardship, Government of Manitoba
MMF-1001: Excerpt from Hansard regarding Premier Doer’s comments on consultation
with MMF (date to be confirmed)
MC-1002: Cooperative environmental assessment process for the proposed Wuskwatim
Generation and Transmission Projects by Mr. Strachan
Note: Ms. Phare requested an undertaking requesting Mr. Topping to advise on whether the activities required of Manitoba Hydro before a final water power licence can be granted were part of the original construction plans or were added subsequently. The discussion went in a different direction at that point and the undertaking was never formalized (given a number). (Transcript p. 5308)
Undertakings
MC-73: Provide a copy of the provisions and conditions as set out in the interim licence
for the Churchill River Diversion project
MC-74: Advise what the circumstances are in the regulations when a final licence is
issued and what modifications can be made
MC-75: Advise what new statutes, regulations or changes have come into effect since
the interim Churchill River Diversion (CRD) licence was granted, and which
would potentially be relevant to issuance of a final licence
MC-76: Advise whether there have been any amendments to the Water Power
Regulation since 1973
MC-77: Provide information regarding MMF locals being present at consultations to
date under stage 2 of Sec. 35 consultation process
MWS-78: Advise on Manitoba Conservation’s position regarding whether Manitoba
Hydro is meeting requirements of Missi Falls licence regime on a regular basis
MWS-79: Advise if Hydro notifies Water Branch regarding adverse impacts on
community of South Indian Lake each year
MC-80: Advise which recommendations from What You Told Us (not clear which
document) document were not implemented and provided reasons why
MC-81: Produce May 2002 updated Woodland caribou conservation strategy, or if such
document does not exist advise why not, and advise if update is contemplated
for May 2004
MC-82: Inquire of Ms. Hickson (Manitoba Government Crown Corporation Counsel) if
she reviewed seven specific NFAAT areas, and provide results of review
MH-83: Advise regarding Manitoba's sustainability indicator initiative (“What is it?”)
Questions & Answers Cross Examination:
Questioning of Mr. Topping and Mr. Hannon
· Ms. Phare (CASIL) asked questions regarding minimum outflows at Missi Falls as related to the relevant licences, and regarding possible Sec. 35 consultation arising out of issuance of a final licence for the Churchill River Diversion project (CRD). On the latter point, Mr. Topping stated that “The Province has indicated that they are prepared to consider a consultation, but it is very much based on Hydro's submission on the -- also the concerns that would be tabled with the Minister.”
· It was determined that CRD still operates under a 31 year-old interim licence. Mr. Mayer (CEC) asked when a final licence would be approved. Mr. Topping responded: “…There were a number of terms and conditions provided on the interim licence [before a final licence can be approved], a number of undertakings that Hydro must complete. Specifically one of the undertakings is determining the severance line for the Churchill River Diversion project which they are still trying to complete that aspect of the undertaking….the other undertakings of course where they are developing community agreements.”
· Manitoba Hydro has completed most of the severance line work (though not submitted it) and wishes to conclude agreements with Fox Lake and War Lake First Nations before applying for a final licence. They have indicated that once the licencing process for Wuskwatim is complete, they intend to apply for a final licence for CRD. Such application could trigger a consultation process.
· MR. SARGEANT [CEC]: Can an interim licence go on in perpetuity?
MR. TOPPING [MB Gov’t]: Under the Water Power Act, there is no definitive
period set for finalizing an interim licence.
MR. SARGEANT: Doesn't it sort of make a mockery of the term "interim"?
· Note: Mr. Wojczynski (MH/NCN) explains the 31 year delay, relating it largely to the ongoing developments (changes) of the CRD system over the years and the desire to have agreements in place with effected Aboriginal parties prior to applying for a final licence (transcript pp. 5430 - 5437).
· Currently CRD, Lake Winnipeg Regulation, Jenpeg and Limestone operate under interim licences. Final licences have been granted for Long Spruce, Kelsey, Kettle, Grand Rapids and Missi Falls.
· When asked by Mr. Abra (CEC) whether licences under the Water Power Act consider climate change, Mr. Topping stated that his branch “would expect the environmental licence to cover off the effects of climate change.”
Note: all discussions above concern licences under Water Power Act, not Environment Act.
Questioning of Mr. Strachan and Mr. Hreno
· Mr. Abra (CEC) asked questions about the role of the PAT throughout the process, and their assessment of the EIS and Need For And Alternatives To (NFAAT).
· Ms. Teillet (MMF) asked questions regarding specific provisions of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act (CEAA).
· ABRA [CEC]: …was there an EIS conducted for it [CRD], or an equivalent assessment document for the Churchill River Diversion or the Augmented Flow Program?
MR. STRACHAN [Manitoba Conservation]: Not to my knowledge, no.
MR. ABRA: Now, is your department aware, Mr. Strachan, of any environmental assessment of the effects of the Augmented Flow Program of the South Indian Lake Northern basin, the Lower Churchill River, including the Churchill River estuary, lakes along the diversion route, lakes and reservoirs on the Lower Nelson receiving CRD flows, or the Nelson River estuary?
MR. STRACHAN: Environmental impact assessment per se, I would say no. We talked about several reports through the course of this hearing that perhaps one could consider an environmental impact assessment of sorts.
CEC Cross examination of MH/NCN
· Mr. Abra’s (CEC Counsel) cross examination included questions relating to scope, monitoring and baseline specifically with respect to culture; traditional knowledge, sustainable development policy context, sustainability indicators, and MH’s environmental management system.
· Mr. Lecuyer (CEC) asked questions relating to protection of heritage sites.
Schedule Adjustments/Changes:
None.
Notes / Comments:
· “The Water Power Act licensing provides for the authority to use provincial Crown lands, waters and water powers and so involves some different considerations than those of the environmental approval process.” Steve Topping, Manitoba Water Stewardship
· “The final licence will provide for the term of operation for up to 50 years.” Steve Topping, Manitoba Water Stewardship in reference to water power licences for projects such as hydro generation projects
· Mr. Topping identified himself as the co-chair (for Manitoba Water Stewardship) of the Aboriginal consultation steering committee for Wuskwatim.
· Mr. Hannon (Manitoba Justice) stated that Aboriginal consultation arises out of the Water Power licence process, not with respect to the Environment Act licence.
· Ms. Teillet (MMF) stated: “…the position that the Manitoba Metis Federation is trying to get people to understand is that their communities don't coincide with the Northern Affairs communities and that those mayor and council don't represent them….the Manitoba Metis Federation has made it very clear in written letters to you and into this Commission that they are not being asked to be consulted with, that they are not being spoken to as locals or at any level. And so I guess what we're asking you is do you have a plan for how you're going to deal with that…?”
· Ms. Teillet quoted Premier Doer (from Hansard) as saying "Our ministers have had full consultations with the Metis Federation" (date not given).