July 2012 doc:IEEE 802.11-12/0902r0
IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs
Date: 2012-07-19
Author(s):
Name / Affiliation / Address / Phone / email
Dwight Smith / Motorola Mobility / Grapevine, TX, USA / 817-714-2127 /
Chair: Stephen McCann (RIM)
Acting secretary: Dwight Smith (Motorola Mobility)
Tuesday, 17 July 2012, 10:30 to 12:30 (AM2) – Elizabeth B
Call to order and agenda
Meeting called to order on Tuesday, July 17th 2012 by Stephen McCann at 10:30 am. He also reminded participants to record their attendance.
The chair then reviewed the updated agenda (doc 12/0757r2) which covered three sessions being held at the San Diego venue (Mon ad-hoc, Tue AM2 and Thu AM2).
- The chair made some minor modifications and a revision (r3) was produced
- The revised agenda (doc 12/0757r3) was approved by unanimous consent.
The chair reviewed the meeting guidelines including the IEEE patent policy.
Approval of minutes
Minutes from May 2012 meeting (doc 12/0670r0) were approved by unanimous consent.
Minutes from 05 July teleconference meeting (doc 12/0781r0) were approved by unanimous consent.
Review of group status summary
The Chair presented the status as presented in the May session closing report (doc 12/0698r0).
There were no comments from the group.
Review of Liaison Response from Wi-Fi Alliance
Liaison is available as doc 12/0920 from Edgar Figueroa (WFA Chairman). Chair read through the response.
Chair summarized it as indicating that we are probably a little ahead of their schedule and there is not much to be doing right now.
Chair also noted that the indication that there being a new group may further help us justify our scope and potentially rename the group accordingly.
The chair asked if we were ready to discuss the group naming. There was some reponses regarding getting our scope completed.
Presentation: 12/0765r0 – Dynamic Mobility Integrated Dynamic Transit Operations Use Case (Carl Kain - Noblis)
- Describes use case model related to transit stations – in this case an airport
- 1) is where user is on a bus and it is running late, needs to have a bus wait a little bit so they get where they need to go
- 2) When flights start going off schedule (e.g. bad weather) there could be benefits to adjust the transit services
- 3) Ride sharing scheduling
- Use case is for local WiFi network to be able to support transit needs of the passengers
- server local to network
- server available via basic internet
- APs advertise the service where it is local, might be an issue where it is one of many generally available on internet
- APs could act as agent
Questions/Comments
· None were made at the time
Update on use case and requirement doc
Carolyn provided a overview of the use case and requirements doc (12/0433r5). It is a current listing of material that has been submitted and is not an edited working document with normative materials.
Discussion on Draft Scope
The chair returned to the scope material that had been worked on in Monday’s ad hoc session.
The group went into on-screen editing mode. There was some review of the discussion held on Monday’s session.
There was discussion on re-use of existing discovery protocols. This raised point of being able to handle layer 3 protocols at layer 2. It also raised question of whether the approach would be encapsulation of existing protocol(s) or whether a more generalized wording would suffice. There is concern that the existing schemes normally operate up the stack and we may be somewhat limited at MAC layer and we may have to control expectations.
There was no conclusion on the wording as there is still varied points of view in the room and there does not appear to be consensus.
Discussion on Study Group Name
With the confusion in the room as well as the various other groups involved in service discovery there is likely to be continued confusion on our purpose with our current group name. The chair presented a few alternative names.
Other names were offered by members of the group. There was general agreement on the term “Pre-Association” with varying interest in “Transport”, “Service Discovery” and “Infrastructure”.
The chair held a strawpoll to gauge the interest.
- Pre-association Infrastructure Discovery 4
- Pre-association Discovery 35
- Pre-association Transport 11
- Neither 1
- Don’t Care 6
Motion to Change Study Group Name
Based on the results of the straw poll, the chair then ran a motion to change the name of the study group
Motion:
Move to rename the Infrastructure Service Discovery SG to Pre-association Discovery SG.
This was moved by Ian Sherlock, seconded by Dwight Smith
Results were: Yes 46 / No 0 / Abstain 1 – Motion Passes
The chair will work with WG leadership regarding the name change. He advised that would likely not be implemented before the September session.
The chair captured this motion in the agenda and produced another revision (12/0757r4).
Recess
The chair proposed to recess. There were no other items brought forward for handling.
Group was recessed at 12:00. The next session will be held on Thursday AM2.
Thursday, 19 July 2012, 10:30 to 12:30 (AM2) - Madeleine CD
Resumption of meeting and review of updated agenda
Chair resumed the meeting at 10:30am. Following the request to change the name with the WG Chair, the group will be addressed as PAD (Pre-Assciation Discovery) SG.
Chair presented the current agenda (12/0757r6) which incorporates updates to cover new materials to be addressed in today’s session. As there were no objections, this revision of the agenda was unanimously approved.
Approval of Minutes
The minutes from Monday’s ad hoc session (doc 12/0901r0) were approved by unanimous consent.
Motion to Extend Study Group
Motion was presented
Request the IEEE 802 LMSC to extend the IEEE 802.11 PAD Study Group
Note: this is to allow further work to finalize PAR and 5 Criteria documentation.
Moved by Harry Worstell, seconded by Dwight Smith
Results: Yes 29 / No 0 / Abstain 0 – Motion Passes
Presentation: 12/0923r0 – ISD SG Additional Use Cases (Joe Kwak - Interdigital)
- Describes two use cases to be considered for inclusion in the use case document
1) shop owner – provides local data but no internet for users with shared password
2) Max needs a cab – provides info of available cabs in the area
- Requirements were also proposed related to these cases
Questions/Comments
· (chair) delighted to see the intranet use case
· No other comments
Chair suggested adding these use cases to the use case document to capture the information. Carolyn agreed to revise the document accordingly.
Presentation: 12/0961r0 – Describes existing Service Discovery Protocols (Alex Ashley – NDS Ltd)
- Describes three different protocols
1) UPnP/DLNA using SSDP
2) Apple Bonjour
3) Microsoft Windows (NetBIOS, Active Directory)
Permitting these would require ability to send UDP and TCP frames
Suggested that with use of well-known names we may be able to do something for those
Questions/Comments
· (chair) regarding the point of names these are for services and not the protocol names
· (Clair Global) – regarding need for UDP/TCP – could this be handled using some wrapper?
· (Alex) – could do some kind of application layer mapping – EAP as example raised
· (Clair Global) – is that something we want to get to
· (Chair) not sure we want to go there
· (Huawei) – regarding use of link local address – do we need to have a local address
· (Alex) – if AP proxying it could be handled that way
· (ETRI) – asked to clarify Bonjour security concern –
· (Alex) – if AP proxied any UDP it could open things to abuse for other content – would need some awareness of material involved
· (Huawei) – link layer address availability of IP pre association would be issue
· (Alex) – need some mechanism
· (Juniper Networks) – could have some kind of login to LDAP type entity and then make specific items visible
· (Qualcomm) – AP as proxy with IP address and then advertising could there be some restricted addressing
· (Alex) – STA would not have address in pre-association so question of which server to route requests
· (Chair) - clarified that the devices should be able to advertise their services and not establish channel to exchange the information
· (Huawei) – why would this not be possible using the existing schemes
· (chair) – could be possible
· (Nokia) – are we looking at zero-config for address assignment?
· (Alex) – either AP would provide proxy or the devices need some kind of link local address – so really looking at impacts
· (Nokia) – then it suggests that it should use names
· (Alex) – many of these are well-known names so could we just advertise the services without the queries
· (Nokia) – so would we have mechanisms for advertisement or queries
· (Alex/chair) – could be both.
SG Scope Discussion
Chair put up document 12/0959r0 which is being used to capture scope which will be used as basis for the PAR.
Chair presented some proposed straw polls to help frame the scope of activities.
- Should PAD develop a L2 Service Discovery Protocol
- Should PAD develop a method to enable transport of higher layer SD protocols
- Should PAD develop a methods to enable discovery of services facilitated by an AP
- Should PAD exclude direct P2P non-AP SD mechanisms
First of these dropped as it was felt it was covered by the third. There was some rewording based on questions.
Next set addressed method of advertisement
Should an AP advertise (Broadcast) service/capabilities
Should AP respond to queries regarding services and capabilities?
There was some clarification that both could be possible. There was also question of whether AP meant single device or in the infrastructure (chair suggested a logical AP/BSS involved)
Following discussion to get basic sense of the points involved
Straw Polls
1) Should PAD develop a method to enable transport of higher layer SD Protocols?
Results – Yes 18 / No 5 / Abstain12
2) Should PAD develop a method to enable discovery of services provided through an AP
Results – Yes 45 / No 0 / Abstain 3
3) Should PAD exclude p2p non-AP device discovery mechanism
Results – Yes 8 / No 27 / Abstain 9
4) Should an AP advertise (i.e. broadcast) services/capabilities
Results – Yes 40 / No 0 / Abstain 6
5) Should an AP respond to a query on availability of a service
Results – Yes 43 / No 1 / Abstain 2
Chair concluded that the results of straw polls 2, 4 and 5 were fairly definitive but that the results for 1 and 3 may need further input.
Issues raised include:
· security concerns and that to resolve would depend on being application aware to use some context.
· higher layer contexts implies that we could get tied up in higher level activities
· the higher layer services are not being acquired at pre-association so the support is at question
· not sure how the p2p with non-AP would be involved
· p2p context in IEEE environment is not very clear – is there a clear view of the objective #3 raised – there was some discussion on this being a potential “pandora’s box”
· some felt that original intent of being infrastructure would preclude p2p.
· re #3 we not be master of some p2p environments and the related security issues could be problematic
Chair then returned to the Scope Statement to continue editing. There was some expansion to include service selection. There was some concern that the TGai scope could be viewed as similar. There were no changes resulting from this point
Chair then ended the discussion and editing and it will be put on the server as doc 12/0959r1 so that people could review and comment.
Teleconference schedule discussion
Chair indicated that as September meeting will be focused on getting PAR and 5Cs completed. There was a view that the use case and requirements were about as loaded as they would get. Consequently there was no real work needed before the September meeting and thus there was little need for a teleconference between now and then.
No Teleconference will be scheduled before the September meeting.
September meeting planning
3 slots will be requested as was taken at this meeting.
The request will seek to avoid TGai overlap. A joint session with TGai was proposed but there were concerns that clear objectives be addressed.
Focus of work will be to complete the PAR and 5Cs.
AOB
There was no other business
Adjourn
The meeting was adjourned at 11:50am.
Minutes page 4 Dwight Smith, Motorola Mobility