HEAT TREATING
APRIL 2006
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
April 24-28, 2006
Hotel Nikko New Century Beijing
Haiden District Beijing
China
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, APRIL 24, 2006-CLOSED SESSION
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1. Call to Order/Quorum Check
The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Doug Matson. A quorum was not established. Introductions were conducted and the Attendance Listing was routed.
ATTENDANCE
User Members Present:
Name Company
Giuseppe Campanile Alenia Aeronautica SpA
Phillip Cox Rolls-Royce plc
Peter Edwards AIRBUS
Mark Emerson Rolls-Royce Corp
Andrew Hopkins BAE Systems
Jasbir Malhotra Vought Aircraft Industries Inc.
Doug Matson Boeing
Mike Navaira Lockheed Martin Corp.
Mitch Nelson Cessna Aircraft Company
Tom Norris Goodrich Aerostructures Group
Eddy Pham Northrop Grumman Corporation
Mike Shen Honeywell
Andrew Snow Raytheon Aircraft Co.
David Soong Hamilton Sundstrand
William Stewart Bombardier Inc.
Marc Taillandier EUROCOPTER
Jeffrey Thyssen General Electric- Aviation
David Damasauskas Spirit Aerosystems
Serge Labbé Héroux Devtek Inc.
S. Roaidi Rokik GE International Inc.
Wally Ye Hamilton-Sundstrand
Frank Liang General Electric Aviation
Other Participants/Members:
Name Company
David Sullivan Wyman-Gordon
Wang Shaoyi AECC
Wu Ning Hong Du Aviation Industry Group
Zhu Yuanming Guizhou Honglin Machinery Co. Ltd
Zhuanye Xie Guizhou Honglin Machinery Co. Ltd
Yosuke Miyazaki Kawaski Heavy Industries Ltd.
Xie Zhuanye Honglin Machinery Corporation Ltd
Shan Zhan BAMI
Bing Chuan Fan CAC
Ma Ying Baoti Group Ltd
Wang Yong Mei Baoti Group Ltd
Jian Huang Naujing Honeywell Site
Zhibin Qin Xi Xi'an Aero-Components Co. Ltd
Song Jiang Gui Zhen Anda Forging Co Ltd
Toshikuni Yazawa Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Zhumin Wei Baimtec Materials Co Ltd
Andy Dai SPS China Co Ltd
Lucy Lui SAM (Suzhou) Co Ltd
John Paw SAM (Suzhou) Co Ltd
Wang Rong HongYuan Aviation Forging & Casting Industry
Jiang Song Gui Zhou AnDa Forging Company
Ji Ao Jianmin Xian Aero Engine Control Co
Michael Zhou Smiths Aerospace
Sim Boon Tiong Singapore Aerospace Manufacturing Pte. Ltd
Nie Rui Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing
Zhang Hong Fang Shen Yang Liming Aero Engine Company
Mo Wei Hong Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials
Ning Wu Hong Da Aviation Industry Group
Zhao Zhi Shen Yang Liming Aero Engine Company
Wang Long Hui Chang He Aircraft Industry Group
PRI Staff:
Jerry Aston-Staff Engineer
Marcel Cuperman-Staff Engineer
2.0 STANDARDIZATION TEAM UPDATE (MATSON)
D. Matson debriefed Heat Treating Task Group (HTTG) on the following items:
Major/Minor NCR definitions: The Major definition was accepted by AS9100 and Nadcap and each TG will give specific examples to further define the definition. The Standardization Committee asked for 1-2 volunteers from each task group. D. Matson and J. Thyssen volunteers to work on the committee.
Merit: NMC Sub-team produced standard requirements including no major NCR in last two audits.
Quorum voting: Clarify how many votes per Prime
ACTION ITEM: HTTG to submit clear examples of Major findings to the Standardization Committee before May 26, 2006.
ACTION ITEM: From the Standardization Committee feedback, a training session for the auditors needs to be developed to address Major and Minor NCR writing.
ACTION ITEM: Research quorum voting requirements, NTGOP001 Appendix 3 needs to be revised.
3.0 METRICS (D MATSON)
· Auditor capacity is yellow - need is in Europe and Asia
· Certificates issued is green
· Eligible suppliers attaining merit is yellow at 75% and is stable
· Cycle time to close initial audits is yellow
· Cycle time to close reaccred audits are red
· Discussion on what are the factors that are driving this metric up?
· Change to delegation process was proposed:
Changes Proposed
§ A delegated staff engineer will be able to close an audit with few NCR’s (to be determined) without going into ballot.
Concern: M. Nelson to poll TG to see what criteria they use to review and close audits.
§ Are the TG reviewers making decision on the staff engineer’s recommendations
§ Are the TG members reviewing the entire audit package to make their own decision?
§ Are they following what other task group members ballot
From the feedback that the team receives (anonymously), the team will build a model that works for the HTTG. A subteam was formed to poll the task group and propose a model that the TG can consistently follow. The sub-team includes M. Nelson, M. Emerson, and Andy Snow. Report will be give at the July 06 meeting
ACTION ITEM: Mitch Nelson to poll HTTG on criteria they use to close audits. Mitch Nelson, Mark Emerson, and Andy Snow will put a guideline together that Primes can follow.
ACTION ITEM: SE to ask for data to explain factors that are increasing the cycle time.
4.0 PRIME BASELINE SLASHHEET REVIEW (D MATSON)
For this meeting not all the Primes had reviewed the baseline checksheet to see if they wished to have a Prime slashsheet. The following action plan was raised to ensure that this information is available for the July 06 Task Group meeting.
ACTION ITEM: A timeline was developed by the task group:
· Primes have 2 weeks to submit their request for additional slashsheet- May 15, 2006.
· Primes have 30 days to submit a draft checklist-June 15, 2006
· SE to collect prime specific information submitted and forward to task group for review before July Task Group meeting – June 22, 2006
5.0 POTENTIAL LAPSED ACCREDITATIONS (STAFF)
Discussion on lapsed accreditation led to the recommendation to change the
requirement for a follow-up to a 6 month accreditation. It was agreed that this would be discussed further at the July 06 Task group meeting and a proposal created to take to NMC.
HTTG encouraged staff engineers to send email to the Prime TG member to help suppliers who are in jeopardy for lapsed accreditation. Primes can help expedite answers.
6.0 STATUS OF AS7003 BALLOT (D. MATSON)
It was debriefed that AS7003 has been revised. The major change that Nadcap need no longer create AS specifications and the AC checksheets will be the only document required. This will reduce the time to modify AC checksheets as the AS documents no longer are needed and the AC ballot process is streamlined and does not need SAE ballot.
TUESDAY, APRIL 25, 2006-OPEN SESSION
7.0 APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MINUTES
The minutes from the January 2006, Redondo Beach meeting were agreed but not approved due to lack of quorum for the vote.
8.0 HARDNESS SUB TEAM UPDATE (M. NELSON)
Work is on-going. The HTTG proposed changes were accepted by the Materials Testing Task Group (MTL) with few exceptions. It was proposed that HT Suppliers that do not require ISO 17025 would not have to do Round Robin for hardness. This was not agreed by the MTL Task Group but they agreed to review again and give their decision at the next meeting. It was agreed that the Matrix (Fig 1) will be removed.
MTL Task Group will meet with HTTG at the Madrid meeting.
9.0 HT STSTG UPDATE
Meeting was canceled due to the Chair and Vice Chair being unavailable. Apologies were made to the attending suppliers.
There will not be a HT STSTG meeting scheduled for July.
10.0 TORCH/INDUCTION BRAZING
It is now agreed with the Welding Task Group that Heat Treat auditors will audit to AC7110/1 checksheets for Induction and Torch brazing. Torch brazing will be a new addition for Heat Treat auditors.
ACTION ITEM: Welding TG to arrange auditor training for October 06 meeting.
11.0 CLOSED MEETING DEBRIEF (D MATSON)
The following items discussed in the closed meeting were briefed in the open session.
Doug Matson reported:
· Feedback on Metrics issues, ways to improve, root causes
· Major and Minor definitions
· Lapsed accreditation
· Prime Slashsheet review
· Status of AS7003
12.0 AUDITOR TRAINING TOPIC AND FORMATION OF TEAMS
Suggested topics of discussion:
Session 1: (Session 1 Team-Mike Navaira, Mark Emerson, Eddy Pham & SE)
Major/Minor –NCR Classification-(Systematic vs process control)
Auditing Techniques- (TG proposed that a QA professional consultant to train
Auditors)
NCR Writing
ACTION ITEM: Mike Navaira, Mark Emerson, Eddy Pham and Staff Engineers - Case study will be sent to auditors in August. Auditor will be asked to identify all NCRs in cast study, write them as formal NCRs, and submit them at auditor training. Task Group to provide feedback on those submitted.
Session 2:
AMS 2750 – Clarification and inquiries (Doug Matson & team)
RPS 953 –short session on customer’s specs (Phil Cox & Pete Edwards)
Induction/Torch brazing training (Jeff Thyssen & Jerry Aston)
How to perform an audit (Mike Navaira, Marc Taillandier, Pete Edwards)
Aluminum Training: John Ewing, Laura Fisher
The HT Auditor Training will be scheduled 8am – 5 pm on Sunday, October 22, 2 2006.
13.0 AMEC MEETING UPDATE (D MATSON)
Doug Matson gave a brief review of the last AMEC meeting. The topic of interest for this group being:
● ARP 1962 is planned for revision, and may again become a mandated document.
● AMS 2770 - is planned for revision
14.0 UPDATE OF AC AND AS CHECKLISTS
· AC7102-Intermediate-ballot comments reviewed-make modification and ballot.
· AC7102 Rev D- Ballot comments reviewed. Extra questions were added to the checksheet to fit in with the Prime slashsheet questions. Sub team to address comments checksheets re-balloted.
· AC7102/1-Furnace/Dip Brazing – Ballot comments reviewed, ckecksheet to be re-balloted before next meeting.
· AC7102/2-Aluminum – Ballot comment reviewed, Doug Matson agreed to reword some questions. When this is complete, checksheet to be re-balloted.
· AC7102/3-Carburizing - make changes with sub-team and ballot
· AC7102/4-Nitriding – make changes with sub-team and ballot
15.0 PYROMETRY REFERENCE GUIDE REVISION FOR REV D UPDATE (D MATSON)
HTTG accepted new draft of the Pyrometry Reference Guide.
ACTION ITEM: Guide was posted on eAuditNet on April 3, 2006.
16.0 PLANNING AND OPS MEETING DEBRIEF (D MATSON)
The following was debriefed from the planning and operations meeting,
NMC have a sub-team to review Task Group Standardisation. The NMC recognise that over the years each Task Group have developed slightly different working practices to cover the various problems they have encountered. The sub-team was put together to review these differences and standardize the processes.
Items covered by the team were;
● Major / Minor definitions
● Merit Criteria
● Quorum and Voting
● Accreditation (Still in Work)
● NMC asked for input from the Task Groups on the proposals.
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 2006-OPEN SESSION
17.0 SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE UPDATE
Task Group Supplier Rep to NMC- TG is entitled to one supplier member on NMC. Ed Englehard has resigned. Ed Jamieson is the new HT Supplier Representative.
18.0 AUDITOR HANDBOOK SUB TEAM UPDATE (M. NELSON)
Sub-team debriefed task group. Task Group accepted draft. New version will be issued for July 06 and Task Group members to receive copies.
ACTION ITEM: Release new Supplier/Auditor Handbook to Heat Treat customers and post on eAuditNet.
THURSDAY, APRIL 27, 2006-CLOSED SESSION
19.0 AUDIT ALLOCATIONS
The Task Group closed 166 audits (111 reaccreditations) of which 63 received 18 month and 8 received 25 month accreditation) 35 initials, 13 follow-ups and 7 failures between February and April. These were all done using eAuditNet.
20.0 SE DELEGATION REVIEW (D MATSON)
The Task Group reviewed concurrence data for the past three months. Jerry Aston, Anne Allen, John Ewing, and Laura Fisher are all maintaining acceptable concurrence rates and their delegation is continued.
Staff Engineer Marcel Cuperman is not yet eligible for delegation.
The Task Group discussed the best way of improving consistency of audit review between SEs and Task Group members with regards to depth of root cause required and definition of major/minor NCRs. It was agreed to capture the differences found by the Task Group on review and use this information to develop a “Staff Engineer Handbook”.
ACTION ITEM: SEs to draft a handbook that addresses expectation and concerns and present to Task Group.
21.0 AGENDA ITEMS FOR JULY 06 MEETING
· Prime Slashsheets
· Quorum Discussion
· Supplier Workshop (1/2 day on Wednesday)
· Supplier Workshop Topics (½ day on Wednesday)
· Action item review
· Delegation/Delegation Procedure
· NTGOP 001-Appendix 3
· Checksheet ballot comments
· Dissolution on HT STSTG
· Hardness Sub-team / MTL to attend
· Auditor Training Update
· Auditor consistency (auditor checklist questions-NCR)
· Auditor/Supplier Handbook Update
· Torch/induction brazing update
· Metrics
· Auditor oversight evaluation
· Audit allocations
· 6 Month accreditation discussion (Proposal to the NMC)
· Accreditation ballot process feed-back
22.0 NEW BUSINESS
- S-frm-16
Task group did not approve because of concerns that the form should state that is used only for initial planning/scheduling purpose.
ACTION ITEM: Send the form to TG for ballot with verbiage that states “Form is used only for initial planning and scheduling purpose”.
- Documents to be translated into English
The Heat Treat Task group reviewed what was proposed by the Globalization Sub-Team. It was agreed the following documents were required to be in English:
● Quality Manual
● Process and Procedures
● Example of a shop traveler (a template)
● Any procedure that was used to complete the self audit - Process control matrix
Doug Matson raised the question, “If there was a need for the supplier to fill in a process control matrix similar to what the Chemical Processing checksheets require. It was agreed a sub-team would work on this and what the matrix should include and present their recommendations at the next meeting.
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team-Doug Matson and Mike Navaira
- Fastener De-Brief – Jeff Conrad
Checklist AC7113/1 -This mainly addresses suppliers where there are no Prime approvals. The checksheets cover all the special processes used in the manufacture of fasteners but not to the same depth as the individual special process checksheets. It is not the Fastener Task Group’s intention that this checksheet will replace the current separate approvals and it will be up to each individual Prime to define to suppliers what their requirements are.
The Fasteners Task Group plan to release the new checklist by December 2006. - Ballot for failure figures
SEs presented to the Task Group the results from the failure ballots for this year. The results show that 50% of the suppliers that meet the failure requirements of NOP011 were failed. From this discussion, the HTTG agreed:
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