Claude: Welcome friends, to the Polyglot Project podcast. I'm Claude Cartaginese in New York.
David: And I'm David Mansaray from London.
Claude: In this series of informative and motivational interviews, we hope to continue the conversation initiated by the Polyglot Project and pick up where that book left off.
David: We hope to save language learners from across the globe time by interviewing world-class language learners from across the globe. We really hope you enjoy.
Claude: Hello everyone! I'm Claude Cartaginese, editor of the Polyglot Project, the definitive guide to learning foreign languages. A few weeks ago, I announced on my YouTube channel that I planned on conducting a series of podcast interviews which would be posted on my web site, syzygyonlanguages. Since making that announcement, I've modified the plan somewhat because, as is my custom, I completely underestimated the amount of labour involved in such an undertaking. The podcast series will still be made, but there will be one major change: the interviews will be co-hosted and, on that note, I'd like to introduce David Mansaray, the future co-host of these interviews. David, how are you today?
David: I'm doing great, thank you Claude. How are you doing?
Claude: Good, good. Now, as you guys can probably tell from David's accent, he is not here with me in New York. In fact, where are you David?
David: I'm in London, United Kingdom.
Claude: London, United Kingdom. So you do speak English there then, right?
David: Yes we do indeed!
Claude: Good, good! David and I have been corresponding recently and he's excited about the podcasts, as am I, and the Polyglot Project I know has been an enjoyable read for you, right Dave?
David: It has indeed. I remember when the project went live and I downloaded some of the issues that were leading up to the final release of it. And, you know, just reading the testimonies and the stories about the language learners just, you know, blew my mind away, especially, you know, there are too many names to mention, but just reading the stories, just really let you know that, you know, anything you do, if you put in the right amount of effort can yield positive results.
Claude: That's right. And I found, in my own case, there is so much material in that book, that you can open in at random and read and reread the passages and you get something new every time, which I think is the hallmark of a good book.
David: Yeah, and what I especially like is that, you know, everybody has a different point of view in the way that language learning should be approached and, although they all have different approaches, what they all agree is that it does take hard work and that you do need to work at it and they all have a positive attitude. If there's anything to take away from that book is that you need to have a positive attitude and to be willing to put in the work that is needed to achieve what you want.
Claude: That's right. Now, in your own case, when did you become interested in foreign languages, you know, what types of things influenced you?
David: Well, quite a few things. Well, I would say that maybe a year ago now, maybe a little bit more, I became interested in foreign languages. First of all, my girlfriend, she has just graduated, the summer that just went past, studying linguistics and she sparked my interest in the field of linguistics itself and... she had been studying... [she has been] a student of Spanish for a number of years and I wanted to, you know, learn a new language; and, when I was in school I wasn't... I was terrible at learning languages. I took German, you know, and... I did some research into how I would get started learning a language and I did stumble across, you know, the YouTube community of language learners and the blogs of language learning and I was surprised to see that everybody was saying that the way that you learn in school is not the way that you need to learn. And although it was a surprise, it kind of... it was in line with how I like learning myself because... I don't particularly like having too much structure with how I learn; I find that I learn best when I'm having fun, and when I'm designing my own sort of programme with study and... I thought, you know, let's just give it a try... so... I gave it a try with some Spanish, which I've been studying for some months and... a lot of hard work and... I was having lots of fun, so it didn't feel like too much work at the time, and I would say that, you know, I'm speaking comfortably in Spanish at the moment. I've still got a long way to go; I'm going to be... I would consider myself to be a lifelong learner, so I'm going to keep pushing, and I've also started Japanese at the beginning of this year and that's coming along well, so... you know, and that... and oh, and I also am now a student of linguistics myself, so... so I have a bit of a... I have a bit of a point of view about the language learning process that may be a bit unique to some of the listeners out there because, you know, there's a lot of controversy as to whether or not linguists contribute greatly to the language learning process, so, you know, I've got a thing or two to say about that.
Claude: Well, let's explore that for a moment. I know there are people out there, who have degrees in linguistics who are not necessarily multilingual themselves, and who take great offence to polyglots and multilingual people calling themselves linguists. How do you feel about that?
David: Well, first of all I think that the discussion in itself is silly, or it doesn't make sense because, if you were to look in a dictionary, the term "linguist" is actually coined with two definitions, one of which will read something along the lines of "somebody well versed in a number of languages"; and then, another definition would be along the lines of "a graduate of linguistics". Linguistics itself has very little, although it does, to do with learning languages; you know, there is an area of linguistics called "applied linguistics", which looks at the methods in which we learn languages and how best they can be applied etc. etc. and they come up with hypotheses. Just like any hypothesis, you know, it's not written in stone that this is the way that things have to be but, you know, the person that has conducted the research clearly does believe in what it is that they have learnt. So, when looking at a polyglot, and then looking at a linguist, generally... well, more times often than not, they have a completely different approach, or end goal in mind. An enthusiastic language learner wants to learn as many languages as possible. When it comes to a linguist, what it is that they are trying to achieve is understand the science of language, which is a completely different thing. Applied Linguistics, which is about learning languages is... you know, is a small part, you know; linguistics goes into phonology, it goes into semantics, it goes into morphology, it goes into the social aspects of language and communication and, you know, a great deal more, so it's a discussion that almost doesn't make sense because, linguists in the sense of the languages learners, and linguists in the sense of the scientists, have totally different goals with what it is, and the overlap is so small.
Claude: So it's perfectly legitimate then for, a Steve Kaufmann, for example, to call himself a linguist?
David: One hundred percent. A hundred percent. It's not written in stone that you're either/or.
Claude: And in your case, what do you intend to do with a degree in linguistics?
David: I'm hugely fascinated with people and communication, and I have a wide range of interests, so I'm taking linguistics, and it's also combined with social anthropology. So, what it is that I would like to do afterwards is, make documentaries about culture, and I feel that in order to understand culture, the first step that anybody needs to take is to understand the language of any of the people that you wish to study or document, or make any sort of documentary about. So, with me, understanding the multiple dimensions that make up language, in itself, will give me a deeper understanding into how people communicate, in general, you know, which will, you know, contribute to the plan of taking over the world one day!
Claude: Right, right! Now, you mentioned before that you had this idea of language learning, which was classroom based, and you came upon the YouTube language learning community... different... the Polyglot Project... different books and publications. Ten years ago, before any of this had actually come on the scene, how do you think things would have been for you, with respect to how your goals and aspirations have been shaped?
David: Well, it's quite interesting you asked that because, ten years ago is when I started... I think ten years ago it may be, or about ten years ago I started secondary school and that's when I would have picked up German first of all and, just looking back to that time... you know, I started off doing alright with language learning and, you know, language learning involves... so much it’s self-study and self-motivation, but also the encouragement you get from your peers around you and your environment has a big contribution to that. So, I grew up in an area... or... my classroom wasn't too interested in languages. I had a unique interest in languages at first, but then, you know, I kind of got sucked into the crowd that, you know, said, "Oh, German's not cool; it sounds like you've got phlegm in your throat etc. blah blah blah blah". So, I think that may have been the main reason I fell off track, but I did find it difficult; I got to a point where I used to look at the teacher, and I'm, like, hmmm... "Ich weiss es nicht", which is the only thing I remember, which means "I don't know".
Claude: "I don't know", yeah! I actually had a French class in college, and this is back in the 1970s; and the instructor could not speak French! She could conjugate verbs and she was basically a chapter or two in the book ahead of us; but, can you imagine how unmotivating something like that would be? She had no accent, she had no knowledge of the culture. And it was terrible and, you know, this is pre-Internet, this is pre-YouTube, pre-iPod; there was really nothing to go to except for the printed word and, you know, that takes you so far. Even a lot of language courses did not come with audio. So... now I think there has really been a revolution with the Internet, with YouTube, with the iPad, the iPod. I don't think the Polyglot Project itself would have been possible ten years ago.
David: No, a hundred percent no, because the online presence that we have nowadays with the... well, I say online presence... with access to the Internet now, we just are able to connect with minds that think in similar fashion and that want to communicate about interests.
Claude: Yeah! How much has YouTube, for example, influenced you, or sources like LingQ or any of these other resources out there?
David: For me, it was very encouraging because I was able to sit on the sideline, but also look at how other people that are starting from scratch are approaching these challenges that, at the time, seemed extremely daunting. So you've got, you know, Asian languages like Japanese or Chinese and I'm seeing people that, I can clearly state, have similar intellect to myself or more intellect... or more intellectual than myself, and they are saying, you know, this is not difficult, it doesn't have to be difficult; you just have to work hard at it and do at least 30 to 40 minutes of study every single day and just build upon the bricks that you have laid, and you will be fine. And just... whenever I did get down with my study of Spanish, because I was maybe expecting too much of myself; I may watch a YouTube video or I may go into the forums on the Internet and just read what people are writing and I could just, you know, take in the information and, for those people who are shy, they don't have to get involved, because the content is just there for you to just watch and read on the sideline.
Claude: It's interesting you say that. I mean, in my own case, I think I watched thousands of YouTube videos before I made my first one. It was just... had I known I was going to make videos I probably would have called my channel something different, something more easily pronounceable, at any rate!
David: Yeah, but, you know, it makes it unique, so... it's not too much of a problem!
Claude: But, I'm looking forward to these interviews that we are going to do in the future. I've got some very good feedback from people: I have Moses McCormick in the wings; Ryan the language blogger has agreed to be interviewed so, without showing all of our cards here, I think that it behoves the listener to check back with us periodically because I think this is going to be a natural extension of the Polyglot Project, and there are so many interesting people out there whose stories I really want to delve into with your assistance, naturally. I think it's going to be a huge benefit to people out there.
David: And something I'd like to add is that these podcasts are meant to be used to help motivate people and to help people overcome any frustrations that they may be having, by speaking to, what I would call, world-class language learners. And, we want the word to spread as fast and as far as possible. So, I do encourage you to download the podcasts from my website or Claude's website and host it on your own blog if you want to give it to your... allow your readers to listen to what these language learners have to say, and, you know, maybe get some traffic for your blog, but the idea was just to have this resource available to as many people as possible. So please do that.
Claude: Yes, and... David, thanks for joining me today here, and for everyone out there, please check back with us, and thank you for listening. David, I look forward to talking to you again next time.
David: That's great. See you all next time!
Claude: Take care. Bye guys!
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