8. Solar Keymark Network Meeting

Monday, March 15th, 2010, 12:00 - 19:00; Room ?
Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 9:00 - 13:00, Room ?

Location: SPF
Institut für Solartechnik SPF, Hochschule für Technik Rapperswil HSR, Oberseestrasse 10, CH-8640 Rapperswil, Schweiz, www.solarenergy.ch

Revised final draft (6th draft) agenda (9/3 2010)

Item

Decision required

Content

Related documents / comments / details

0 / 12:00 Sandwiches
1 / 12:30 Opening of the meeting (HD)
2 / Introduction of participants (All)
3 / x / Approval of the minutes of the 6. meeting (HD) / N0118R0
4 / Review of Solar Keymark Network decision list (HD) / N0100R2
5 / Review of Solar Keymark Network document list & Solar Keymark Network distribution list (JEN) / N0000; N0001
6 / x / Nomination of national industry representatives (what if more than one national association?) / See “Internal Regulations” 2.1.2
N0102R3 pdf
7 / Revised scheme rules including (JEN):
· Flexible system certification
· New type definitions à Change in CEN fees
· New Solar Keymark Network fees / N0106R4 (11.04)
N0106R4annexC
N0106R4annexD
8 / Complaint on Solar Keymark Network secretary (Sören Scholz):
· Internal regulations not followed by secretary in connection with decision on new fees
9 / x / Complaint on certification bodies (JEN)
· Not all data sheets in harmonised format: excel + pdf / note 9
10 / x / Procedures for complaints on SKN test institutes (JEN) / note 10
11 / x / Pressure drop (equation parameters)to be included in the Solar Keymark collector datasheet ? (Peter Kovacs) / note 11
12 / Extension of Solar Keymark Certification to New Sub-types of Solar Collectors - Applicable Procedure - Flexibility? (Joao Santos) / note 12
13 / x / Including collector annual output in collector data sheets (JEN + Peter Kovacs) / Excel sheet for calculation available from restricted area of the www.solarkeymark.org
TRY IT OUT!
14 / x
x
x / Flexible system certification/testing, experience/problems with new “flexible testing”
· Untypical systems having the average A/V - is this a problem ? (JEN + HD)
· Un-insulated pipes (JEN + HD)
· Collector Keymark (how to assure common validity of system and collector Keymark) (Sören Scholz)
· Requirements on “same brand” etc, to be relaxed (Francois Xavier Ball / JEN) / note 14a
Document to come
N0106R6annexD
15 / x / System data sheet - new version - translation still needed (JEN) / Document to come
16 / ? / Influence of tapping time on system performance (Sebastian Laiple) / N0124R0
17 / ? / Simulation of low solar radiation testing days using solar radiation shield during thermal performance tests of factory-made systems according to the CSTG method (Fabienne Sallaberry) / N0125R0
18 / x / Systems to be included in database (JEN)
19 / Updating database - send new data sheets when ready - please (JEN)
20 / x / Harmonized detailed technical input format to be used when applying for Solar Keymark (JEN):
· in case of collector certification (single/family)
· in case system certification (single/family) - especially in case of system family certification the test institute needs detailed information / Preliminary documents available from the SKN web in the section:
“SYSTEM CERTIFICATION / EXTRAPOLATION OF PERFORMANCE”
21 / x / Flexible collector certification (JEN)
· absorber coatings - any new item for listing ?
· exchange of insulation - procedure for exchanging ?
· exchange of glazing - any items for listing ? / Documents ?
Document ?
(Decision D7.M7)
22 / x / Show always licence number together with Keymark (and type: collector/system) (JEN + Sören Scholz)
23 / x / Keymark for uncovered collectors (JEN) / note 23
24 / x / Keymark for solar tanks - EN 12977-3 (JEN) / note 24
25 / x / Need for change in structure for SKN and its meetings? (HD) / note 25
26 / x / Harmonized procedure for physical inspection / surveillance (Francois Xavier Ball)
Alternative proposal (Andreas Bohren)
- Collector template
- System template / N0106R6annexA
N0121R0
N0122R0
N0123R0
27 / x / Input to Solar Keymark Factory Inspection Report (Thomas Ljung) / note 26
28 / x / Proposal for voting on harmonised requirements related to Solar Keymark for collectors (Stephan Fischer)
· Parts list, drawings and specifications, Solar Keymark Collectors
· Collector label, Solar Keymark Collectors
· Installer instruction manual, Solar Keymark Collectors / N0120R0
29 / x / ISO 9001 and annual inspection requirement / note 29
30a
30b / x
x / SK Remote Random Sampling Procedures final.docx
Double inspection - recognition of Solar Keymark inspection reports / note 30a
N0126R0
N0127R0
note 30b
31 / x / Proposal conc. participation in the SKN - change of SKN internal regulation (Andreas Bohren) / note 31
32 / ? / Concentrating collectors (Joakim Byström) / note 32
33 / Information from CEN TC 312 (?)
34 / Information from QAiST project (Pedro Dias)
35 / Eco-design and energy labelling (JEN)
36 / IEA SH&C Task on “Rating and Certification Procedures” / Global certification ! (JEN) / www.iea-shc.org/task43
37 / x / Creating and managing the SKN-FUND (JEN):
· Legal things?
· Board
· Eligible projects/activities
· How to apply for funding / note 37
Most probably around 100000 € will be available in 2010 for Solar Keymark related activities
38 /

Any other business (HD)

39 / x /

Date and place of next meeting(s) (HD) - Autumn meeting in Gratz?

40 / End of meeting (HD)

10 hours for 40 issues à in average 15 min per issue

HD: Harald Drück, ITW, Stuttgart University, Chairman Solar Keymark Network,

JEN: Jan Erik Nielsen, PlanEnergi, ESTIF Technical Consultant, Secretary of Solar Keymark Network,

NOTES/DETAILS
9 / Still the secretary does not receive all data sheets in correct format
10 / What to do if a manufacturer doubts the results of a test lab (he has maybe different results for the same product from two test labs)
11 / In Stuttgart we discussed the issue of pressure drop measurements and my conclusion from the discussion was that the majority again wants to keep it as an optional test even though we decided at the last WG1 meeting to make it mandatory again. In any case, everyone agrees that it’s an important design parameter for larger installations and as such we should somehow “work harder” to make sure that pressure drop is part of the manufacturers specification of a solar collector, i.e. if it hasn’t been measured in conjunction to the collector test it SHALL have been measured elsewhere.
We discussed it at SP and would like to suggest that pressure drop (equation parameters) should be included in the Solar Keymark collector datasheet. We would like to discuss this at the upcoming meeting in Rapperswil.
Peter Kovacs, SP
12 / Extension of Solar Keymark Certification to New Sub-types of Solar Collectors - Applicable Procedure
Dear Jan Erik,
It would be most helpful if you could express your comments regarding the situation in which one of our clients in the Far East has asked for an extension of the SK Certification to a new Solar Collector. The manufacturer (please see License PSK-063/2009) of Solar Collectors with Vacuum Tubes has already certified a family which is made up of references with 12, 14, 16, 18 e 20 tubes. As it is defined in the Solar Keymark Scheme Rules for a Family of Solar Collectors – Clause 4.2, the references with 12 and 20 tubes were subject to tests according to EN 12975.
Now the manufacturer pretends to include in the certificate a new reference with 30 tubes. My understanding is that, according to Solar Keymark Scheme Rules – Clause 4.2, this new reference (new largest size) should be subject in a recognized laboratory (in this case it would be INETI, which performed the initial tests and is still the option of the manufacturer) to complete tests (Thermal Performance and Reliability Tests) according to EN 12975 – Clause 5.2. Is my understanding of the applicable requirements of the Solar Keymark Scheme Rules for this situation correct or is there a simplification (with lower cost) that can be introduced in this process of extension of the certification?
Your comments on the above presented situation would be most appreciated, because our client has indirectly challenged CERTIF’s understanding of the Solar Keymark Scheme Rules.
João Santos, CERTIF
JEN response:
I'm afraid that - according to the rules - you have to make a complete test.
Any ideas how to be more flexible?
14a
14b / A/V issue; Rob Meesters
We have to test the system that is closest to the average A/V.
What happens if we decide a year later that we will have a new size in the family. At that time the system that was tested is not the closest to the average A/V anymore.
Does this mean that another system has to be tested if we want to add this new size system? Is this taken into account in the rules at this moment?
***
Un-insulated pipes issue:
Proposal for a solution is, that we change shall to should in the requirement in Annex D for the maximum part of un-insulated pipes and add a note saying something like:
Note D.2.1: Large un-insulated parts of the piping introduce big uncertainty in determination of pipe heat loss coefficient (dependence on wind etc.) and hence increase the risk that the check done on calculations made with free and fixed parameters (see D.4.2) will fail.
The requirement in D4.2 is:
"If the deviation <in calculations made with free and fixed parameters> for any location/load is higher than 15%, reliable performance prediction for other configurations is not likely to be reliable."
***
Dear Mrs. Yildirim,
Thank you for todays' call. I completely understand your position but can not offer you a solution for the problem at the moment. One of the main requirements to get DIN EN 12976-1/-2 is a certified collector according DIN EN 12975-1/-2. Referring your explanation the collector you are planing to use is certified according the standard, but with another certification body (CERTIF).
The problem which have to be solved is that corresponding information about the certified product (collector) always will be forwarded to the second certification body (DIN CERTCO) too, who would issue the certificate for the solarthermal system according
DIN EN 12976-1/-2. Means each product changes and alterations have to be announced. If the certification of the single collector will be resigned or canceled it also effects to the certification of the system. This exchange of informationen betweendifferent certification bodies does not exist at the moment. So it can not be assured that all information always will reach the parties involved.
I'm sorry not to be able to send you better news at the moment.
DIN CERTCO Götz Heydeck
23 / Keymark for uncovered collectors (JEN)
Uncovered collectors are also used as evaporators in heat pump systems - with different operating conditions tan fore seen in the standard:
· absorber temperature below ambient temperature
· condensing/evaporation on the outside
· condensing/evaporation inside
24 / Keymark for solar tanks - EN 12977-3 (JEN)
· EN 12977-3 now available.
· Tank manufacturers asking for ”Solar Tank Keymark”
· One step towards the “EN 12977“ methodology
· Interpretation of test results
25 / We are quite a lot participating in these meetings, which could be a problem ?
Alternatives:
· one annual plenary meeting + one-two annual subgroup meetings?
· one annual plenary meeting + one-two annual board meetings?
27 / SP proposes that the following points should be added to the Solar Keymark Factory Inspection Report
(Annex A Checklist of the Specific CEN Keymark Scheme Rules for Solar Thermal Products):
· Name of certificate holder (could be different from manufacturer)
· Certificate number for Keymark certified products
· (Report number)
· Requirements regarding marking of products according to EN12975-1, see below.

6. Marking of products

yes / no
Are the products marked according to EN 12975-1, section 7.2?
6.1 / Visible and durable label
6.2 / Name of manufacturer
6.3 / Country of manufacturing
6.4 / Type
6.5 / Serial number
6.6 / Year of production
6.7 / Gross area of collector
6.8 / Dimensions of collector
6.9 / Maximum operating pressure
6.10 / Stagnation temperature at 1000 W/m2 and 30°C
6.11 / Volume of heat transfer fluid
6.12 / Weight of empty collector
Best regards,
Thomas Ljung
SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden - Energy Technology

www.sp.se
29 / A manufacturer has asked around the certification bodies if the ISO 9001 can “count” in the annual inspection requirement. Some answers:
· DIN CERTCO:
o Regarding you question about the factory inspection authorized inspectors I can tell you that, as long as your company has a valid ISO 9001 certification the factory inspection has to be carried out every two years.
· CERTIF:
o The audit is also annual and independent of ISO 9001.
30a
30b / Unfortunately I will be unable to attend the upcoming SKN however, could you please consider the following items for inclusion into the remote sampling documents N0126R0 :
· RRSI : Sampling by Internationally Operating Inspection Companies
· Option 2 : Acceptable Sampling Bodies
· Please Include : “BSI-Global and all their local representatives”.
Many thanks, Dr. Patrick Davis
***
Some certification bodies do not accept inspection done by other Solar Keymark certification bodies / inspectors
Proposal from secretary: Solar Keymark certification bodies shall recognize inspection reports done by other Solar Keymark certification bodies
31 / Proposal conc. participation in the SKN - change of SKN internal regulation
Introduction
More and more parties are involved and make their living from the Solar Keymark activities. To continue the success of the SK and to balance the work load we have to ensure a uniform high quality level in all our activities. A very basic requirement is that we all are updated and are aware of all the regulations to proof our competence.
Today most test laboratories and certifiers actively take part in the SKN. There are however some test labs and inspectors who don’t show up at the SKN meetings. Our experience shows that the lack of specific “Solar-Keymark-knowledge” results in confusion about the procedures. Examples are “sampling procedures”, “regulations about the exchange of materials”, “how to handle different sizes/types” and much more.
Of course the negative impact of this lack of knowledge is manifold and should be reduced. A first step is to make the participation in the SKN Meetings mandatory for all the parties mentioned in the SKN internal regulations.
Proposal
The SKN internal regulations are changed as follows (present version in italics):
2.1.1 Obligatory members
Representatives from the following groups shall participate as a member in the SKN:
New: Representatives from the following groups have to participate as a member in the SKN.
– empowered certification bodies
– accredited testing laboratories and inspection bodies
– SKN chairman
– ESTIF, acting as SKN secretariat
New: This participation includes the obligation to take part with at least one person in each of the biannual SKN meetings.
The number of meeting participants of the above mentioned institutions should not exceed two representatives per individual institution.
New:
Sanctions: For every absence a fine of 4000 € is imposed. The SKN secretary is mandated to administrate these fines in a special fund. The use of the money is decided by the SKN (possibilities are “policing”, “paying people who work for the SKN”, “dissemination activities”, “paying the organiser of the SKN meetings”, etc.)
Subsequent no-shows result in a suspension of the SK accreditation until the next attendance of a SKN meeting.
Exceptions from these regulations have to be approved by the SKN.
32 / 1) I can give a short report from the successful work with SRCC Standard 600 for concentrating systems, it is (nearly) adopted. It is now based on EN12975. Myself and Stephan Fischer has been the European participants.
2) We opened the issue with tracking concentrating systems last Solar Keymark meeting. I understand that the process of adding the amendment to EN12975-1 is underway. Anything more that need to be done on that issue?
Best regards,
Joakim Bystrom
37 / SOLAR KEYMARK FOUNDATION
q Legal entity: ESTIF, Own “body”, …
q Management: Elect persons for SKF Board (5 persons?: test lab, certification body, ESTIF, industry rep., ?)
q Eligible activities/projects:
q Promotion of Solar Keymark
q Brochures
q Events
q …
q Maintenance & development of Solar Keymark
q Increased flexibility (exchange of components)
q Increased security (round robin tests / spot checks)
q Increased harmonisation
q Including new products
q …
q Maintenance & development of Solar Keymark basis: EN standards
q Better standards
q Including new products
q …
q Global certification ?
q Make Solar Keymark useable/available outside Europe
q Time schedule:
q Call for projects out from Board: Quickly after this meeting
q Applications for funding of projects: Deadline maybe before summer
q Final decision on funding of projects: Solar Keymark Network meeting October 2010 - based on recommendations from Board