Deposition of
FRED JESSOP
June 13, 1989
1 PROCEEDINGS
2 (Whereupon, FREDERICK M. JESSOP, having been
3 first duly sworn to tell the truth,
4 testified upon his oath as follows:)
5 EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. SWINTON:
7 Q Good afternoon. Would you state your full name
8 on the record, please.
9 A Frederick Meed Jessop.
10 MR. BERRY: Before we get rolling, let me
11 make a couple representations and make a couple requests,
12 Jeff. Mr. Jessop has had back surgery in the recent past.
13 He has been diagnosed as having diabetes and has some degree
14 of heart trouble. And for those reasons, we would request
15 that we take a break every hour during these proceedings. I
16 have instructed Mr. Jessop if he feels uncomfortable or
17 needs to take a break sooner than that he is to let me know
18 and we will stop at that time to allow him to rest or do
19 what he needs to do in that regard. So with that in mind,
20 let's go ahead.
21 MR. SWINTON: All right. The other thing
22 that we ought to represent for the record is that we have
23 been in contact with Barbara Hjelle, who represents Hildale
24 Town, and consented with her that we will not get in any
25 depth in relationship to Hildale Town matters until
3
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 tomorrow.
2 I may, however, ask questions that will
3 elicit some response about Hildale matters, but I don't
4 intend to pursue those without Barbara here representing him
5 in his capacity as clerk of the town.
6 Are you, Mr. Berry, representing Mr. Jessop
7 here today?
8 MR. BERRY: Yes, I am.
9 MR. SWINTON: Okay. And that's in his
10 capacity as a trustee?
11 MR. BERRY: That's correct, or any other
12 capacity besides clerk of the town of Hildale.
13 MR. SWINTON: Are you representing him in his
14 capacity as a bishop of the Fundamentalist church of Jesus
15 Christ of LatterDay Saints?
16 MR. BERRY: Since that's one of the hats that
17 Mr. Jessop wears, yes.
18 Q Well, let's go to the basics. I will ask the
19 embarrassing question first and then we will soften it and
20 we will go from there. How old are you,
21 Mr. Jessop?
22 A 79.
23 Q When were you born?
24 A April 20, 1910.
25 Q Where were you born?
4
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 A Millville, Utah.
2 Q Millville?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Where is Millville?
5 A Cache Valley.
6 Q Your parents' names?
7 A Joseph Smith Jessop, Martha Yates.
8 Q How long did you spend in Millville, Utah?
9 A Twentyfive years.
10 Q Went all the way through high school there?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Graduated from high school?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Which high school?
15 A South Cache High, Hyrum, Utah.
16 Q Were your parents involved in what I would call
17 the Work or the Priesthood Work?
18 A Eventually.
19 Q When did they become involved in that?
20 A In about 1920.
21 Q When you were about 10 years old?
22 A (Nod.)
23 Q Is that a yes?
24 A Yes, excuse me.
25 Q After you graduated from high school, did you
5
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 attend any further university or college schooling?
2 A In about '30 there was a lot of unemployed
3 qualified teachers. And so they had outreach college
4 classes, which I attended some.
5 Q That would have been about 1930?
6 A Somewhere along there.
7 Q How long did you attend those outreach college
8 classes?
9 A Couple seasons is all.
10 Q How long was a season?
11 A Fall quarter, something like that.
12 Q Besides the two seasons of outreach college
13 classes, did you attend any other schooling on a college
14 level?
15 A No.
16 Q When you were younger, were you baptized in any
17 church?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Which church?
20 A Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints.
21 Q At age 8?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you attend a mission?
24 A No.
25 Q Were you ever baptized into any other church?
6
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 A No.
2 Q After your graduation from high school, can you
3 tell me where you were first employed?
4 A My first major employment was the Union Pacific
5 Railroad in Ogden.
6 Q What did you do for the Union Pacific Railroad?
7 A I was a machinist helper in the roundhouse.
8 Q Do you recall how old you were when you did that?
9 A I was about '29.
10 Q So that's the first significant employment that
11 you had after graduation from high school?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What sort of jobs did you hold between the time
14 of your graduation from high school and the time that you
15 were was that 1929 or when you were 29 years of age?
16 A '29, 1929.
17 Q In 1929? So you were 19 years of age?
18 A Yeah.
19 Q How long again did you work for the railroad?
20 A Just one fall.
21 Q Then what was your next employment?
22 A The depression came and I got laid off. Then we
23 sawed wood and worked farm work and whatever we could.
24 Q Just odd jobs where you could find them?
25 A That's right.
7
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 Q How long did that go on?
2 A Four or five years.
3 Q Until about 1934?
4 A Uhhuh.
5 Q Were you married
6 A No.
7 Q by this time?
8 A No.
9 Q When were you first married?
10 A In '35.
11 Q After the odd jobs of sawing wood and the other
12 things that you did, when was the next time that you had any
13 fulltime employment?
14 A I worked construction in about '59, North Rim of
15 the Grand Canyon.
16 Q 1959?
17 A Uhhuh.
18 Q Between 1934 and 1959, were you employed?
19 A Yes, I worked the sawmill.
20 Q Which sawmill?
21 A The sawmill in east of Zions Park and in '36.
22 Q What was your next employment after the sawmill
23 east of Zions Park?
24 A I just worked in the Short Creek area doing
25 whatever was necessary to be done.
8
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 Q You moved down to the Short Creek area when, in
2 1935?
3 A June 1, 1935.
4 Q Is that before or after you were married?
5 A Before.
6 Q Did your entire family move down with you?
7 A No.
8 Q You went down there alone?
9 A That's right.
10 Q Did anyone ask you to go down to the Short Creek
11 area?
12 A John Y. Barlow.
13 Q When was the first time that you met
14 John Y. Barlow?
15 A I don't recall. It was years before.
16 Q Do you recall the circumstances?
17 A No.
18 Q Was there a time in your life when you began
19 identifying yourself with the Group that was headed by
20 John Y. Barlow?
21 A When I accepted his invitation and went to
22 Short Creek.
23 Q Your parents were affiliated with the Group from
24 about about 15 years prior to that time; is that correct?
25 A I think so.
9
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 Q Did any of your brothers or sisters join with you
2 in belonging to the Group?
3 A I think some before, some after, perhaps.
4 Q What did John Y. Barlow want you to do when you
5 moved down to Short Creek?
6 A Just help out with the work. It was pioneering
7 circumstances.
8 Q Can you recall approximately how many people
9 lived in Short Creek in 1935?
10 A Very few families.
11 Q Less than ten?
12 A Somewhere around there.
13 Q When you first moved down to Short Creek, did you
14 live with one of those families?
15 A Yes, I lived with my brother.
16 Q What is your brother's name?
17 A Lyman.
18 Q Was he married at the time?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You lived in his home?
21 A Camped with him.
22 Q So you didn't really have a home?
23 A Just living in one of the homes with other
24 people.
25 Q When was the first time that you were able to
10
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 live in your home in your own home?
2 A In the fall of '35.
3 Q Did you build one or move into something that was
4 already existing?
5 A Moved in, one room.
6 Q How long had the home been there that you moved
7 in to?
8 A I don't know.
9 Q Was it old then?
10 A Not real old, I don't think.
11 Q Was John Y. Barlow living in Short Creek at the
12 time?
13 A At which time?
14 Q I am still back in 1935.
15 A He moved down in '35.
16 Q In 1935, did you know any men who were members of
17 the priesthood council?
18 A I knew John Y. Barlow. I knew Joseph Musser. I
19 knew Charles Zitting. I knew Louis Kelch.
20 Q How many members were there in the priesthood
21 council in 1935?
22 A That's all I knew.
23 Q So if there were other members, you just don't
24 know that; is that correct?
25 A Right.
11
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 Q Did any of them live in Short Creek?
2 A John Y. Barlow.
3 Q Were you related in any way to John Y. Barlow?
4 A He was my brotherinlaw.
5 Q Was he married to your sister?
6 A Yes.
7 Q An older sister?
8 A Yes. If you don't know the circumstances and
9 would like to know, I can give you a little history.
10 Q That would be helpful. I would appreciate it if
11 you would.
12 A There were certain men in the Short Creek area
13 devout industrious men that became knowledgeable of the
14 priesthood council. And upon the death of Joseph Leslie
15 Broadbent, John Y. Barlow had responsibility. And these
16 devout men invited John Y. Barlow to come down and preside
17 over them and help them formulate some type of United Order
18 Effort, which he confided to me was the case and reason that
19 he went down. And he needed my help and assistance at that
20 time. I was capable and willing, believed him and went to
21 help.
22 Q In 1935 when you first moved down there, do you
23 know who owned the land on which you resided?
24 A I think it was Elmer Johnson.
25 Q Was he related to LeRoy?
12
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 A Yes.
2 Q Brother?
3 A Yes. He was one of the devout men.
4 Q Was there a time when that land that was owned by
5 Elmer Johnson was placed into a trust arrangement?
6 A I think so.
7 Q Do you know when that would have been?
8 A No, I don't.
9 Q Was there any other land down there that was
10 placed into a trust arrangement in the 1930's?
11 A When you put the date on, I have to say I don't
12 know.
13 Q Was there in fact a trust relationship created
14 down there prior to the time that the United Effort Plan was
15 created?
16 A There was a contemplated trust.
17 Q What do you mean by contemplated?
18 A Well, I heard talk of United Trust.
19 Q Was it ever more than a mere contemplation?
20 A I don't know.
21 Q You did not participate in that in any way?
22 A No.
23 Q Did you ever see any documentation related to the
24 United Trust?
25 A I don't recall.
13
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 Q Have you ever seen any since then?
2 A I don't recall.
3 Q You don't recall ever seeing any?
4 A No, I don't.
5 Q Do you know what the United Trust was?
6 A I have to say no.
7 Q Did you have any specific responsibility during
8 the late 1930's by that I mean from 1935 to 1940 any
9 specific responsibilities in the Short Creek area?
10 A Workwise or otherwise?
11 Q Well, I want to explore both sides. Let's look
12 first at workwise.
13 A No.
14 Q Just whatever John Y. Barlow asked you to do?
15 A Right.
16 Q What do you mean by otherwise?
17 A I was trying to see if I could remember anything
18 ecclesiastical. I don't recall.
19 Q When was the first ecclesiastical responsibility
20 that you recall having?
21 A Now, when you say ever .
22 Q I guess I am referring to 1935 and beyond.
23 A Oh, because I had many in the church prior to
24 that. I think they came later.
25 Q Do you recall when?
14
EXAM BY SWINTON
1 A In the '40's.
2 Q In the '40's? Do you recall what the first
3 ecclesiastical responsibility was that you held in the
4 '40's 1940's?
5 A Distribution of goods.
6 Q Did you have any sort of title?
7 A I don't recall any title.
8 Q What were your duties with respect to
9 distribution of goods?
10 A Well, one was to milk the cows and distribute the
11 milk and other commodities that were purchased and made
12 available to the people.
13 Q Who gave you that responsibility?
14 A I think Brother Hammon was the first one.
15 Q Do you recall when in the 1940's that was?
16 A Well, he didn't get there until '42. So it was
17 in '42.
18 Q What was J. M. Hammon's responsibility in the
19 community in 1942?
20 A He had some leadership role.
21 Q How did you know that?
22 A Because he directed me, and I took his direction.