19th Solar Keymark Network meeting
Draftagenda(R2)
2015-09-15, jen
Meeting time:
Tuesday, October6th, 2015, 13:00 - 19:00
Wednesday, October7th,2015, 08:30– 13:00
Meeting location:
Meeting room 17
AFNOR
11, rue Francis de Pressensé
93571 La Plaine Saint-Denis Cedex
France
More detailed info on location
List of recommended hotels
Online booking - DEADLINE for booking: Friday 18 September 2015
Other related meetings are connected – see last page.
Meeting starts: Tuesday, October6th, 13:00
Item
/Decision/-resolution requested
/Topic/content/responsible
/Related documents / comments / details
1 / Opening of the meeting /HDShort welcome and some practical information
2 / Introduction of participants /All
Excuses from:
- …
3 / x / Approval of the agenda /All
4 / x / Comments to the minutes of the 18. meeting /HD, All
… / N0262R0 pdf
5 / x / Date and place of next meeting(s) /HD
- 20th meeting: March 8th 13:00 - 9th 14:00, 2016, Berlin, Germany (Host/organiser: Sören Scholz, DIN CERTCO)
- 21stmeeting: October 12th 13:00 - 13th 14:00, 2016, Freiburg, Germany (Host(organizer, Korbinian Kramer, Frauenhofer ISE)
6 / (x) / Review of Decision list/JEN
Any need for follow-up? / N0100R16 pdf
7 / x / Proposal for resolution concerning re-election of chairman / Korbinian Kramer, ISE
In the latest version of the “Solar Keymark Network internal regulations” (Document SKN_N102Rx) in clause 2.3 the sentence:
“The chairman will be appointed for a period of 3 years and may be re-elected for one further term.”
shall be changed as follows:
“The chairman will be appointed for a period of 3 years and may be re-elected for further terms”.
8 / x / Election of chairman /JEN
Candidates:
- Harald Drück (if proposal for resolution in point 7 is approved) (present Chairman - see document for detailed presentation of candidate)
- Jaime Fernandez:“Throughout the last years I have been very active within the Solar Keymark Network. I have participated in and also lead many working groups and SCF Projects. I have learnt from my colleagues, got to know many of them personally and I have enjoyed every minute I dedicated to solar energy. I have been asked to present my candidature for Chairman of the SKN and I would like to accept the challenge. Bringing a lot of positive energy in the next three years, I hope to continue the development of the Keymark, make it a stronger brand worldwide and help our European Industry produce and sell high quality products throughout the world. Please read on the attached document to learn a little about myself and how my skills, experience and ideas may be of service to the SKN as Chairman” (see document for detail presentation of candidate)
Election. / Election for Chairman of SKN 2015 – Harald Drueckpdf
Election for Chairman of SKN 2015 - Jaime Fernandezpdf
9 / (x) / New Equivalent absorber coatings? (even if no new coatings, the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings)
10 / (x) / New Equivalent glazing?(even if no new glazing, the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings)
11 / x / Some problems with collector data sheet format/requirements and air heating collectors / PVT collectorsobserved / Ricard Loyen, Enerplan
How to Improve data sheet format/requirements?
Links to examples of data sheets for Systovi and GSE Air System collectors /
12 / x / New collector data sheet / Patrik Ollas, SP + Andreas Bohren, SPF
Presentation
(Air heating collectors – see also point below, un-glazed collectors, info for energy labelling)
Proposal for resolution:
The presented collector data sheet will be adopted as Annex B1 of Solar Keymark specific scheme rules. /
13 / x / Proposal for resolution concerning the future use of the AirCow CAO calculation tool / K. Kramer
For the calculation of thermal power output for SAHC it is essential to choose the mass flow rate, as the performance indicators vary strongly with it..
To compare different products in the results presented in the SKN Data Sheet, such an "evaluation point" has to be found in a fair and defined manner.
Therefore it is decided to use the excel tool AirCow, to choose this very evaluation point from the test results generated according to EN ISO 9806.
Note: The tool cannot find this point for open-to-ambient SAHC, as they cannot be handled with an efficiency curve yet
The above text shall be added in section 13.7 Calculation of “Collector Annual Output” (CAO) in the scheme rules /
14 / x / Proposal for decision conc. WG for including hydraulic flow scheme in collector cata sheet (on behalf of Swiss Industry and SPF) /A.Bohren
For several important reasons (safety, stagnation, drainability, etc.), the hydraulic flow scheme of a collector is a very important information, but not yet mentioned anywhere on the datasheet and usually not even in the test reports. Sometimes even different flow schemes are united in one family, thus making it rather difficult to design a proper hydraulic layout.
Proposal for decision:
A working group is established to elaborate a simplified scheme to indicate in a comprehensible way the hydraulic flow scheme of the collectors on the Solar Keymark Data sheet.
For the time being it is very welcome if the test labs describe the hydraulic flow scheme in the “Comments of testing laboratory”-field of the data sheet.
15 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. SKN_N0106_AnnexA1b /Jaime Fernandez:
Revised version of the document SKN_N0106_AnnexA1b_R0 consisting of a combination of Annex A1b and A replacing this both annexes should be prepared as a basis for a resolution – to come …
16 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. a new annex about PVT certification. The current small chapter in the scheme rules is not adequate / U. Fritzsche, J.Fernandez
Clear requirements with clear responsibilities are fundamental for the certification of PVT collectors. As a result, the former informative document SKN_N0213R0 SOLAR KEYMARK-Scheme Rules for PVT certification -Requirements and Recommendations – was revised and will be obligate as a new Annex J of the SolarKeymark Scheme Rules.
Proposal for resolution:
Include Annex J: Specific requirements for PVT collector certificationin the Solar Keymark scheme rules / N0106_AnnexJ_R0.docx
17 / Proposals for resolutions conc. better harmonization of “families” / A. Bohren
Background: “… it turned out that different test labs, manufacturers and certification bodies have deviating interpretations of the standards and the scheme rules. Especially the family definition of the Keymark Scheme rules (“If the manufacturer produces the “same” collector in different lengths and/or widths (i.e. the only difference between two collectors is the length and/or the width) the collector is considered the same subtype (within the same collector “family”). In this case only one sample of the smallest and one sample of the largest module shall be taken and tested.”)seems to be a playground for creative interpretations.
At the end of the day it means for example, that depending on whether a Keymark is made at test lab A or test lab B, either one or several (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,…) collectors would have to be tested. For a certification scheme like the Solar Keymark this is not a satisfactory situation. …”
Based on these checks of the submitted test reports the following 12 proposals were assembled with the aim to harmonise and clarify the interpretation of the standards and scheme rules amongst the involved stakeholders. The perfect case would be that all manufacturers are treated the same and will have the same service (=tests) from all test labs.All the proposals are based on real cases, observations and on issued Keymarks. There is no relevant order or sequence in the following proposals.
Proposals for resolutions are listed in separate document
In case of any questions please feel free to get in contact with me already before the Solar Keymark Network Meeting to reduce long discussions.
Andreas / N0268R0doc
18 / x / Proposal for resolution conc. changing the title “Solar Keymark Network secretary” to “Solar Keymark Network manager”/JEN
To avoid confusion, it is proposed to change the title Solar Keymark secretary to Solar Keymark manager (no change in tasks). We will then have:
- Solar Keymark Network manager: Jan Erik Nielsen
- Secretariat of Solar Keymark Network: ESTIF Secretariat
Proposal for resolution: Approve document SKN_N0102_R11. / N0102R11doc
19 / (x) / SK scheme rules approved by CCB (for the last time) – editorial comments from DIN (see below) incorporated / JEN
Editorial comments from DIN:
Dear Hoang,
just a minor question from our side on the new clause 2.2 handling complaints:
- Introducing the complaints it would be helpful to specify, who is complaining at whom.
- In the second bullet point on page 8 “The CB will forward the complain to the specific party and ask for clarification (…)” – please correct to “complaint” and please specify who is the “specific party”?
Especially in clause 6.3 handling of complaints is referenced to IR Part 4 (2006), this shall be fixed with a reference to the updated document and additional reference to clause 2.2 (if applicable).
These are editorial improvements. Therefore we approve the revised scheme rules with the requirement, that these editorial revisions will be implemented.
Kind regards …Inga
Proposal for resolution: Approve N0106R26 / N0106R26 pdf
20 / x / What to do if SKN fees are not paid by the certification bodies? /JEN
Proposal for resolution:
If the SKN fee is not paid within one month of the deadline, the Solar Keymark Network secretary shall:
- delete the certification body from the SK web
- ask CEN CCB to withdraw empowerment
- warn all certificate holders that their products will be deleted from the SK database within 3 months due to missing SKN payment from the certification body
21 / x / Specific case(s) of non-payment of SKN fees from certification bodies? /JEN
- DQS Hellas did not pay all SKN fees 2015
22 / x / SKN fees and budget for 2016 and other financial issues / JEN &PD
Presentation of SKN fees until 2016 – and proposal for budget for 2016
- Proposal for decision: Approve budget
- Proposal for resolution: No change in fees
N0266R0pdf
N0269R0pdf
N0106_AnnexC_R16.docx
23 / x / Request for funding according to Resolution M17.R4 – Funding of SKN working group convenors / J. Fernandez
In application of Resolution M17.R4 – Funding of SKN working group convenors I would like to ask for the funding of 500€ for the work developed at the last meeting in Rome where I acted as the convenor of the workshop for SKN Inspectors that took place before the SKN meeting and also for the working group that proposed the document for Resolution M18.R7 – SKN Scheme Rules AnnexA1b_R0 (Inspection report).
Proposal for decision: J.Fernandez will be paid €500 for the work on Annex A1b
24 / x / Proposal for decision conc. WG for test labs /JEN
We have a CB working group and a inspectors working group to deals with matters specifically related to these groups. I suggest to have a corresponding test lab working group too. /JEN
Proposal for decision
A test lab working group has been established to deal with matters specifically related to testing and test procedures. The group consist of representatives from all Solar Keymark test labs. The group may solve issues internally by consensus, or pass on a request for decision to the SKN.
Working group chairman for the first year is: NN
25 / x / Proposals for priorities for SCF 7th call /All
- Work on an energy label for collectors and Thermo-siphons (Comment: There is LOT32 for windows and it seems that there is no problem to have an energy label for windows. Hence it should be possible also for collectors and Thermo-siphons) / SPF
- Market surveillance tests (i.e. buy anonymously collectors and check for conformity) / SPF
- Standardisation / SPF
- New ISO standards on Insulation and Glass
- Supporting Convenors, secretaries, liaison officers
- Flow scheme proposal (see topic 14)
- …
26 / Voluntary collector output label “SOLERGY” / Stefan Abrecht
Update on the status of the voluntary collector output label.
An industry initiative pushed the issue of the collector label forward and the results will be published soon. As member of the steering committee I would like to inform the SKN about the actions that have been taken and the status of the collector output label “SOLERGY” which gives solar thermal technology more strength in the context with the EU-labelling scheme, supports its goals of reducing primary energy use and not the least promotes the Solar Keymark. / Doc(s) to come
27 / Global certification update / JEN (related to SCF6-9)
Status for Global Solar Certification Network
New IEA SHC Task under way (Task definition workshop in the afternoon, just after this meeting!) / Presentation/JEN
N0267R0 pdf
28 / Update on “Solar Keymark scheme rules for EN ISO 22975-3” / JEN(related to SCF6-5)
29 / Update on “Fundamental new database that can also be used for the generation of data sheets” / JEN
(related to SCF 4C07 and 5C6.1)
30 / Update on CE marking of collectors / Andreas Bohren
(related to SCF 5C5.1) / Presentation/document to come?
31 / Update on Energy labelling / Gerard v. Amerongen / Presentation/document to come?
32 / ESTIF LabelPackA+ project and its proposed cooperation with SKN. / PD / Presentation/document to come?
33 / Updates from Liaison officers
- Liaison officer to IEC/TC117, (related to SCF 5C4.1) /Stephan Fischer
- Liaison officer to IEC/TC128, (related to SCF 5C4.3) /Korbinian Kramer
- Liaison officer to TC164, (related to SCF 5C4.2) / Gerard v. Amerongen
- Liaison officer to TC 371, (related to SCF 4C12c / SCF 5C4.4) / Gerard v. Amerongen
34 / Reporting from SKN WGs:
- “Certification Body Group” / Sören Scholz
- “Inspection Group” / Jaime Fernandez
35 / Information from CEN TC 312 / Vassiliki Drosou ? / Presentation/document to come?
36 / Information from CEN/CCB / Sören Scholz
- Status for outsourcing the Keymark
- New procedures for approval of scheme rules etc.
37 / Solar Certification Fund Projects – General Status Reports / PD / Presentation/document to come?
38 / Experience with misuse of Solar Keymark - exchange of information
39 / Any other business
1. …
40 / Important/interesting national news/developments
1. …
End of meeting /HD
Meeting ends Wednesday, October 7th, 13:00 – simple lunch 13:00 – 14:00
Meeting duration
1st day: 13:30 – 19:00 = 5:30;two coffee break 0:30 effective meeting time 4:30
2ndday: 08:30 – 13:00 = 4:30;two coffee breaksá 0:30 effective meeting time 3:30
4:30 + 3:30hours =8:00 hours = 480 minutes, 40 issues =>12minutesin average per issue
HD: Harald Drück, ITW, Stuttgart University, Chairman Solar Keymark Network,
JEN:Jan Erik Nielsen, Solarkey Int., ESTIF Technical Consultant, Technical Secretary of Solar Keymark Network,
PD:Pedro Dias, ESTIF Secretary General, Administrative Secretary of Solar Keymark Network, pedro.dias(at)estif.org
Time schedule for all Paris meetings:
Schedule for the meetings to be held at AFNOR, Paris, October 2015 / Agenda fromMonday / 5-Oct
Afternoon / - / CEN/TC 312 WG 1 meeting / Andreas Bohren
Tuesday / 6-Oct
Morning / - / CEN/TC 312 WG 1 meeting / Andreas Bohren
13:00 / - / 19:00 / SKN meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
Wednesday / 7-Oct
08:30 / - / 13:00 / SKN meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
13:00 / - / 14:00 / Simple lunch
14:00 / - / CEN/TC 312 WG 2/3 meeting / Vinod Sharma / Sebastian Laipple
14:00 / - / 19:00 / Task definition workshop for new IEA SHC task on international standards & global certification / Jan Erik Nielsen
Thursday / 8-Oct
All day / - / CEN TC 312 meeting / Vassiliki Drosou
Friday / 9-Oct
SKN / Solar Keymark Network