Welsh Grain Forum Meeting
24 August2015, Caerhys and Trefacwn, Pembrokeshire
Present
- Rupert Dunn, Torth y Tir
- Andy Forbes, Brockwell Bake
- Syd Aston, Aston’s Bakery
- Alex Gooch, Hay on Wye
- Anne(Notes) & Andrew Parry, FelinGanol
- Gary Whitely (Chair), Maesyfin Mushrooms
- Steven Jacobs, Organic Farmers & Growers
- Andrew Broad & Daphne Field, Fronlas
- Graham Craig, Baragouiner Bakery
- Isabel Parry, FelinGanol, (Student observer)
Apologies from: Andy & Leanne Wright, Gez Richards, Rick Coldman, Tony Little, John Savage, Naomi Salmon, Edward Dickin, Katherine Steele, Lucy Watson, Ben Pratt
Torth y Tir Tour
The group met at Caerhys farm at 11am. Rupert explained the history of the CSA scheme Caerhys and his part in it, followed by a field tour of his wheat growing trials. The Hen Gymro had been harvested on 18th August. Although growth had appeared good earlier in the year, a variety of factors (the weather, badgers, dogs, crop siting etc) meant the final yield was disappointing. This year has been a steep learning curve. Interesting discussion on husbandry and disease prevention, particularly the use of vinegar to prevent bunt ( infestation in organically grown cereals.
We then went to see Rupert’s new Alan Scott design, wood fired oven at Celtic Camping ( where owner Ian Griffiths gave us an informative talk about the site.
Shared lunch and meeting at Trefacwn 2pm
- Welcome and Introductions, apologies for absence.
Andrew Whitley ( sends greetings via Andy Forbes.
2. Gary agreed to chair the meeting and Anne took minutes.
3. Minutes of the previous meeting and matters arising, (to include finalising committee and signing the constitution.)As we were running late it was decided to defer signing the constitution until the next meeting. Alex Gooch and Steven Jacobs volunteered to serve on the committee.
4. Report by Rick Coldman on his study trip to Germany.
Rick sent his apologies as he is preparing for an imminent Organic Inspection.
5. Andy Forbes: The work of Brockwell Bake and discussion of proposals regarding the management of heritage germplasm (see previous mail).
Andy gave us a fascinating introduction to his work with Brockwell Bake, leading on to a summary of the history of wheat growing in the UK (see and a discussion of the definition of ‘land races’ and ‘heritage’ wheat. HenGymro (see is of particular interest as it is one of the last land races to be grown routinely in the UK.
A discussion of the measures that can be put in place to manage our heritage wheat resources in the future followed.
How can we reward those who bulk up material? (Steven Jacobs will look at the current situation for conventional crops.)
What benchmarks can we put in place for consumers so they can be confident in the provenance of the wheat?
Andrew Broad noted that recognised standards will be required for growers also.
Andy Forbes suggests that a ‘pedigree’ goes with each heritage bulk.
Syd Aston foresaw that a full time curator will be needed for the resulting database and discussion moved on to possibilities of a website full of history and relevant information. Alex Gooch suggested that this should also include information about baking quality of the various lines; specifically, adaptation of conventional techniques to suit heritage grains and recipes. Andy Forbes’ excellent Wheat Gateway ( fulfils much of this need.
Next Steps:
These ideas will be further discussed and developed at The Farm to Loaf Symposium ( organised by E5 BakehouseOcober 25th.
Rupert suggests a workshop/presentation at the Oxford Real Farming Conference in January 2016 (
Steven suggests a plot of Hen Gymroat NOCC 2016 to be held on the Wimpole Estate. (
6. Reports of Welsh Grain related activity included with apologies for absence.
Katherine Steele, Naked Barley, Bangor….A brief update on the Barley field work in 2015:
We have harvested approx 450 kg of Deiniol from Henfaes to use as seed - I am hoping that this can be grown under licence by a commercial farmer in 2016. It does not have any hulled grains, but it does have some green grains. I have decided not to supply it for milling due to the logistical and contamination problems we were having, and no more WISE2 funding.
We have about 250 g of seed from 20 new breeding lines. The best 4 of these will be selected for uniformity and I multiplied in 2017 at Henfaes. They are much more like UK barley than Deiniol.
The company has paid for a trial of Deiniol to be grown at Henfaes and they will be testing it in the food industry over the Winter, but they say that Deiniol is not pure enough for them to consider marketing.
Tony Little..There is a lot happening with the RDP at the moment. Below is the draft of our bulletin which will go out soon, which basically summarises what's going on - Many of the schemes have deadlines of 30 September for Expressions of Interest. Perhaps you could bring it the attention of the Forum, and if you think there will be sufficient interest, I can do a more detailed briefing.
Rural Community Development Fund – EOIs by 31 January 2016
This is for the improvement or expansion of local basic services, such as Community transport and connectivity, renewable energy projects and village renewal and public amenities. If you are interested in developing closer links with your local community or have a renewable energy product in mind this could be useful. The percentage grant contribution and the minimum and maximum thresholds vary according to type of project. £6m is available for an anticipated 100 projects,
Cooperation – EOIs by 14 October
This scheme provides £10Million for up to 20 projects to improve co-operation throughout the supply chain. Further details to follow.
Edward Dickin, Harper Adams… I'd be interested to keep in touch and help out if I can,old varieties are useful in teaching physiology and plant breeding. Also could be a good student project looking at stress tolerance e.g. waterlogging or fusarium etc.
An idea I'd like to try would be to cross the rediscovered accessions to S70 to restore the diversity in the landrace which appears to have been an important feature of its resilience.
We've got the winter naked barley at Harper and the spring 1 1/2 acre plot at my parents' harvested and they look pretty good.
Still waiting on weather for the white spelt and spring plots at Harper, which have to wait their turn.
Ben Pratt and Lucy Watson….We ploughed two and half acres here in Llangeitho in the spring and sowed Spartan forage rape. We hand-broadcast this with mixed success. Was quite patchy in places and there was quite a lot of thistle and redshank. In others it grew very well and was well above my waist, almost to my armpit. Lambs have been strip grazing it throughout August. We have had 25 lambs on and ideally would have liked to have more but with the price of lamb the chap whose lambs they were was reluctant to bring more on. A lesson for next year. The lambs will be coming off on Monday 24th and we will top what is left.
We will then plough again that week with a view to getting the grain in by the end of month. We have sourced Demeter seed and will be growing 1 1/2 acres of Ducato rye and 1 1/2 acres of Schwarbenkorn spelt. If I can get the Finnish rye from Syd Aston then we will also grow a plot of that.
We will then look to put our ewes in to graze off the crop early winter before putting it to bed and then hopefully it storming ahead and producing a wonderful bountiful crop come summer 2016.
Gez Richards, Talgarth Mill…. News from the Mill is that we have a further three Great Taste awards - for our Seven Seeds Flour, Plain Flour and best of all for our new Welsh Wholemeal Flour made from organic wheat from Bwlch - hooray! We have also instigated a small pumping system (2kW)- re-cycling water from a sump at the base of our waterwheel to the penn stock - we have no mill-pond -- this has effectively drought-proofed our production over the dry summer months - yes... it's cheating a bit... but the flour is still pretty good.
8. AOB
The Forum on our website is not used much. Decided that thepreferred way to keep in touch presently is via email.
Skype for meetings? Following the meeting Graham Craig noted…Just a thought - I wonder if there's any way of separating Forum business from the 'site visit' in future as it felt like the agenda suffered because we were all so interested in the visit! Maybe we could trial the meetings by teleconference or Skype and keep the visits as a much more informal, social thing.Any thoughts?
Congratulations to Leanne and Andy Wright on the birth of their daughter Lucy.
Congratulations to John Savage, Da Mhile and Caws Teifi, a very successful and busy summer…’This has been an amazing year for Caws Teifi Cheese at the Royal Welsh Show! Celtic Promise won a gold medal as well as the Supreme Welsh Champion title. Teifi Natural won two Gold medals. Our Smoked Caerphilly a Gold medal. Our Cwn Bach a Gold medal. Teifi Nettle Cheese won a Silver. And our Caerphilly a Bronze medal.’…and … ‘We're excited to announce that our Seaweed Gin won a Silver medal in the prestigious International Wine and Spirit Competition -->
KESS Studentship:
From Katherine Steele:
I was wondering if you would be able to bring up the new KESS II call for 3-year PhD projects, outlined below, please?
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Sadly, the company I have been trying to encourage have recently informed me that they cannot commit to the funding of £3k over three years. Therefore, I thought it might be worth discussing amongst the consortium and associated companies, whether there might be a way to collectively find this contribution – a long shot I know – and then we could design a project to do research that would be relevant to the group, on barley or other grains.
9. Thanks to Andy Forbes for attending the meeting and for such an informative and knowledgeable contribution.
10.Next meeting
- To be agreed via ‘Doodle’