TOWN OF EAST BLOOMFIELD

Planning Board Minutes

April 20, 2006

Planning Board Members Present: K. Jugle, B. Hedges, G. Rogers, R. Lesko, T. Wilkins, and B. Hamlin

Planning Board Members Absent: T. Conklin

Others Present: M. Woodruff (CEO), M. Underhill (Secretary), Allison & Trevor Whiting (agents for Lawson & Sheila Whiting), John Clarke (DDS Engineers, Project Engineer for Kelly’s Landing), Roger Rider (owner), Mark Heilmann, LeRoy Ranck, Ann and Dick Rosati (residents of Fish Brook Run).

Jugle opened the Planning Board meeting at 7:30 P.M.

I.  Area Variance for a lot with 40’ access to the road where 60’ is required. Zoning Ordinance appeal of Article III, Section 135-10, para. D. Lands owned by Lawson & Sheila Whiting, of tax map #52.00-3-5.000. Lands located at 1801 Strong Rd. (Trevor & Allison Whiting acting as agents)

Jugle opened the discussion. He noted that this property under review was the land locked property they had reviewed at the last PB meeting. This is an area variance for a property that will require a deeded easement for a lot with 40’ access.

Jugle asked if the Board had any questions. Hamlin replied that the Board had gone through it at the last meeting.

Hamlin made a motion to recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals to approve the Area Variance for a lot with 40’ access. Lands owned by Lawson & Sheila Whiting, of tax map #52.00-3-5.000. Lands located at 1801 Strong Rd.

Whereas, the PB recognizes that this is not what they want to see on a regular basis.

Whereas, this is a family subdivision of lands.

Whereas, the 40’ access is pre-existing to another lot behind the Whiting lot.

Wilkins seconded the motion. All Board members present voted aye.

II.  Minutes of April 6, 2006

Board recommended the following changes:

Page 1, Whiting sketch plan, para 4, sentence 1: replace “lot in the back of Szmedra is pre-existing”

with “Szmedra lot adjacent to Whiting is pre-existing”

Page 4, Additional Other Business, Comp. Plan 2006, para 1, replace “Sitirski” with “Sitarski”

Page 4, Additional Other Business, Comp. Plan 2006, para 3, replace “Fezner” with “Fessner”

Page 5, Additional Other Business, Comp. Plan 2006, para 5, replace “Pulver’s” with “Block’s”

Hamlin made a motion to accept the Minutes of April 6, 2006 as corrected. Hedges seconded the motion. All Board members present voted aye.

III.  Area Variance for cul-de-sac longer than 1,000’. Zoning Ordinance appeal of Article VI, Section 86-66, Subsection B-6. Lands of Fred Haeflein of Kelly’s Landing, tax map # 54.00-1-71.100. Lands located on Fish Brook Run, west of Brace Rd. and north of Rice Rd.

Jugle opened the discussion for the Area Variance stating that current Land Development regulations have a maximum length of 1’000 feet for cul-de-sacs. The assumption was in the past that without access to water, 1’000 feet would be the limit because that would be the length of a fire hose.

Jugle referenced the letter from Dale Carver (Town of East Bloomfield Highway Superintendent) to Mike Woodruff as presented to the Board, where Dale stated “As per our conversation on Fish Brook Run. I do not have a problem with more than 1’000ft. cul-de-sac as long as the approved engineer road design for the project is followed as per T/O East Bloomfield specifications.” He also referred the Board to the Kelly’s Landing map. Jugle felt that given access to water and fire hydrants, the water issue in not a problem. He also noted that this review was for the Variance only and not the Preliminary/Final.

Hamlin asked for clarification if the cul-de-sac under review was the first one on the map, on Road A. Jugle responded yes, that the review was for the first cul-de-sac and if approved, this will not be a blanket approval for the other cul-de-sacs.

Hamlin noted that the drainage is not updated on the map presented. Also the road frontages along the cul-de-sac are not present.

Woodruff referred to the master map for the Kelly’s Landing project. He located the missing information, particularly the road frontages. He noted that the road frontages are 60’ for each lot on the cul-de-sac and the Board viewed the master map. Hamlin said that originally the road frontages of those lots were originally 40’ and the Board had asked for the correction to 60’.

Lesko asked where the 1’000 feet was counted from. Woodruff said back to Brace Rd.

Hamlin asked who owns Fish Creek and Woodruff replied that it is under DEC guidelines and the Army Corp of Engineers and is classified as a CT stream. Hamlin stated that there should be some restrictions related to development near the stream. There should be some recognition on the map in regards to the status of the creek. Woodruff said that a note could be added to the map such as “the stream known as Fish Creek has a classification of CT”.

Hamlin stated that the resident who lives on lot 16 would not have rights to interfere with the creek. Woodruff noted that no one does. He still does not have a problem with the addition of the statement to be added for preliminary review.

Hamlin noted that technically Mr. Haeflein could loop the road but it does not make any sense to do that. Jugle noted that it would be tough. Given the septic systems and the size of the fields, it would be tough to run a road as a loop. Hamlin said that it would have to run right down the drainage area and that would not make sense.

Hamlin asked if the drainage had stayed the same, near lot 13. Woodruff said yes and this was part of the Swift review. Woodruff discussed the drainage pipes, treatment pond and the storm sewer water that runs into the pond. He noted that the drainage area has to be piped and kept separate.

Hamlin asked if there were drainage easements and Woodruff said yes.

Woodruff said that the Town will not accept responsibility for the pond, and the owner of lot 11 will own it. This was discussed at the meeting on March 31, 2006 which included Dale Carver & Karl Rubinstein from Highway, Allen Ingalls from Sewer and Water, DDS Engineer Don Carpenter and Town Engineer Glenn Thornton. The Town attorney suggested that the Town get an easement, in case we have drainage districts. The Town does not have plans to do this at this time.

Jugle asked what the total footage of the cul-de-sac is. John Clarke, DDS engineer, replied 1,900 feet from Brace Rd. to the end of the cul-de-sac.

Jugle opened the discussion to the public.

LeRoy Ranck asked what the mitigating circumstances are that Fred Haeflein should be granted a variance if legally the Board does not have to do this. He questioned why the Board would go out of their way to accommodate Mr. Haeflein.

Jugle replied that the Board was not going out of their way to do this. The 1,000 foot limit was in place originally as a fire requirement. Kelly’s Landing subdivision is being built to Town specifications with access to water and fire hydrants.

Ranck said that if the reason that the exception is being granted is because of fire hydrants present, and a fire truck cannot get down the road that does not make it acceptable.

Rogers said that fire trucks carry 1,000 ft. of fire hose and that is the reason for cul-de-sacs being not more than 1,000 ft. A truck being blocked is a separate issue and can happen anywhere.


Ranck referred to the minutes of the Town Board meeting on 3/27/06 and the resolution that Haeflein had to pay all monies owed to the Town before approvals were granted. He asked if the past due monies had been paid. Woodruff said yes.

Mrs. Rosati referred to the letter from Glenn Thornton dated Jan 27. 2006. She asked if the outstanding items on the list had been completed. Woodruff said yes. The items were addressed on the map and had been reviewed by Mr. Thornton.

Jugle reminded the public that this review was for a variance only and was not subdivision approval.

Mr. Rosati said if the cul-de-sac went from Brace Rd. to the end of the cul-de-sac, then he wanted to know their road of Fish Brook Run would be part of future development. Woodruff said yes. Rosati noted that this Phase III would be part of a phase totaling 37 lots. He felt that the Board should adhere to the standards which he found from a source published by the American Society of Civil Engineers and he read:” Assuming that a cul-de-sac should handle no more than 200 vehicle-trips per day and that each single-family home generates up to eight or 10 vehicle-trips per day, a cul-de-sac should accommodate a maximum of 20 to 25 houses. He said that he realized that this review is for Road A only; however he feels that this is relevant to future phases. Rosati mentioned that the original proposal mentioned three outlets to the subdivision and a bridge over the creek.

Jugle reminded the public that this was not a public hearing and the remaining issues that the public had could be heard at the ZBA meeting next Wednesday, April 26.

Ranck expressed concern that a recommendation or presentation would be made to the ZBA without input from the public. Jugle noted that this is the process and he noted that the PB had already heard their concerns at the last PB review for Kelly’s Landing. Ranck said that this process is askew and wanted to know how to change this process. Woodruff advised Ranck to go to his legislative body, the Town Board members. Wilkins reinforced that the PB makes the recommendation to the ZBA and the ZBA makes the decision.

Jugle made a motion to recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals to grant the Area Variance to allow a cul-de-sac of 1,900 feet from Brace Rd. Lands of Fred Haeflein of Kelly’s Landing, tax map # 54.00-1-71.100. Lands located on Fish Brook Run, west of Brace Rd. and north of Rice Rd.

Rogers seconded the motion and all Board members present voted aye.

IV.  Sketch Plan Review for Waiver of Subdivision. Lands owned by Roger Rider, of tax #66.00-3-24.11. Subdivision of 19.4 acres will be combined with tax map #66.00-1-24.21 of .06 acres to create parcel of 20 acres total. Lands located at 7930 Rt 5 & 20.

Jugle asked Rider to clarify what he was doing. Rider said that he was breaking out the buildings, the house and 20 acres and he has a buyer.

Hamlin noted that he had about 480’ feet of access left on that parcel and Rider confirmed that.

Jugle noted that the waiver of subdivision looked straightforward. The farm note and land transfer note were present. The property looks fairly flat.

Hamlin made a motion to grant the Waiver of Subdivision as the remaining lands are staying in Agriculture and the separate parcel is approximately 20 acres. Lands owned by Roger Rider, of tax #66.00-3-24.11. Subdivision of 19.4 acres will be combined with tax map #66.00-1-24.21 of .06 acres to create parcel of 20 acres total. Lands located at 7930 Rt 5 & 20.

V.  Other business

The Board revisited the Kelly’s Landing project. They discussed the road, the cul-de-sac and where the road ends and the cul-de-sac begins; and possible variances required for future cul-de-sacs. Woodruff said that according to the Town attorney a variance is required. Jugle felt that the real issue would present itself in future phases as these cul-de-sacs are longer. Hamlin said that she had a hard time thinking of the road as part of a cul-de-sac. The Board discussed this interpretation and that the variance would therefore, not be required at all.

Woodruff said that he would be contacting the Town attorney to get clarification.

The Board discussed the possibility of another a public hearing or a workshop to give the public a forum for their concerns. No decision on these options was made at this time. It was noted that the Board has made every accommodation to hear the public on their concerns. Maps are always available to the public.

Woodruff said that Haeflein has offered Mr., Heilmann to design and pay for the installation of a new septic system. It is not known at this time if Heilmann has accepted or rejected the offer.

Woodruff said that the DOH had requested a letter from the Town stating that they would accept responsibility for the drainage and roads before they were put in. Woodruff would not approve that letter. The DOH wanted the letter before they gave their approval on the plans. DOH Hyland Hartsough has also written a letter stating that he will be inspecting the septic systems.

Woodruff said that they are still waiting for DOH and DEC approvals, once they have these they will present for Preliminary/Final. Potentially they could request a review on May 4th.

Jugle motioned to close the meeting. Hedges seconded the motion. All Board members present voted aye.

Respectfully submitted,

Mary Underhill

Planning Board Secretary

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Planning Board Minutes 4/20/2006