Subtitles

Associated Teachers’ TV programme

School Matters: Coping with Bereavement

0001 10:00:11:08 10:00:14:06

"To Mum,

I'm always thinking of you."

0002 10:00:14:06 10:00:18:23

"I wish I could see your face

one more time."

0003 10:00:18:23 10:00:20:23

"Love you forever, Adam."

0004 10:00:20:23 10:00:23:10

(woman) Oh, that's a lovely message.

0005 10:00:23:10 10:00:26:18

(narrator) Up to 70% of schools

are dealing with a bereaved child

0006 10:00:26:18 10:00:28:08

at any given time.

0007 10:00:28:08 10:00:31:04

This programme shows

how school can play a vital role

0008 10:00:31:04 10:00:33:21

in supporting bereaved pupils.

0009 10:00:35:13 10:00:38:21

At Christmas 2004,

HeronPrimary School in Gloucester

0010 10:00:38:21 10:00:40:24

was struck by tragedy.

0011 10:00:40:24 10:00:44:04

Over an eight-day period,

three parents died.

0012 10:00:44:04 10:00:46:13

Six pupils in school were bereaved.

0013 10:00:46:13 10:00:49:22

Headteacher John Coles

was faced with a huge challenge.

0014 10:00:49:22 10:00:55:21

The initial reaction was one of

devastation, though we'd anticipated

0015 10:00:55:21 10:00:59:10

one of the parents may die

during the Christmas holidays.

0016 10:00:59:10 10:01:03:16

The first reaction

was very much to inform

0017 10:01:03:16 10:01:07:11

as many of the school community

as we could do.

0018 10:01:07:11 10:01:11:17

Therefore, it was important we had

an established ring-around system

0019 10:01:11:17 10:01:17:13

so that staff, teaching assistants,

admin staff and also governors

0020 10:01:17:13 10:01:21:07

were made aware of

the deaths immediately.

0021 10:01:22:07 10:01:26:03

(narrator) John also delivered a

message of sympathy to each family.

0022 10:01:26:03 10:01:29:15

It was so reassuring to think

one of the most important things

0023 10:01:29:15 10:01:32:02

in my children's life

is going to school,

0024 10:01:32:02 10:01:36:21

and, as a parent, knowing that the

headmaster's immediately on the ball

0025 10:01:36:21 10:01:40:16

and thinking of me

and my three children.

0026 10:01:41:20 10:01:45:05

(narrator) Kevin has three sons:

Matthew, Adam and Daniel.

0027 10:01:45:05 10:01:47:23

Their mother died of cancer.

0028 10:01:47:23 10:01:51:19

The other two parents who died

had also been seriously ill.

0029 10:01:51:19 10:01:54:17

So in the previous term,

anticipating a death,

0030 10:01:54:17 10:01:58:09

John Coles had called in the

bereavement charity Winston's Wish

0031 10:01:58:09 10:02:00:19

for advice.

0032 10:02:00:19 10:02:05:03

One of the greatest fears teachers

feel is not that they don't care.

0033 10:02:05:03 10:02:08:22

I think they're often passionate

about feeling for the child,

0034 10:02:08:22 10:02:12:03

but they're very worried about

saying or doing the wrong thing.

0035 10:02:12:03 10:02:15:18

And so sometimes in that climate

nobody says anything,

0036 10:02:15:18 10:02:18:23

and that can confuse the child,

especially younger children.

0037 10:02:18:23 10:02:21:22

When it's something as important

to them as their mum or dad,

0038 10:02:21:22 10:02:24:18

or a brother or sister has died,

and nobody says anything,

0039 10:02:24:18 10:02:29:15

that leaves them with a sense maybe

this is a subject you can't discuss.

0040 10:02:29:15 10:02:34:08

(narrator) Julie Stokes addressed

a meeting of staff at the school.

0041 10:02:34:08 10:02:38:17

Staff asked how they could

perhaps best answer a child

0042 10:02:38:17 10:02:43:07

if they said,

"Is my mum going to die?"

0043 10:02:43:07 10:02:47:06

To answer it honestly and

not lose the trust of the child

0044 10:02:47:06 10:02:49:14

was something we talked about.

0045 10:02:49:14 10:02:52:02

(woman) And what is the answer

to that?

0046 10:02:52:02 10:02:57:09

I think in that situation we would

say that we just don't know.

0047 10:02:59:12 10:03:02:21

(narrator) The school also

had to prepare the pupils.

0048 10:03:02:21 10:03:05:13

Before Christmas,

John held a series of assemblies

0049 10:03:05:13 10:03:09:20

to encourage them

to discuss their worries openly.

0050 10:03:11:23 10:03:13:21

Here's one.

0051 10:03:13:21 10:03:16:24

"Missed my auntie's birthday."

0052 10:03:16:24 10:03:20:07

Sophie, could you come out

and hold that one for me?

0053 10:03:20:07 10:03:25:09

Missed my auntie's birthday. Anybody

got any ideas what I could do?

0054 10:03:25:09 10:03:28:20

I'm really, really,

very fond of this auntie...

0055 10:03:28:20 10:03:31:24

(John) I share those genuine worries

with the children,

0056 10:03:31:24 10:03:34:19

and they help me try and solve,

0057 10:03:34:19 10:03:38:12

or at least help me with strategies,

to cope with those worries.

0058 10:03:38:12 10:03:40:23

- Read it out.

- "My friend is very poorly."

0059 10:03:40:23 10:03:44:02

My friend is very poorly.

0060 10:03:44:02 10:03:49:14

(John) At the end, having put the

balloons back in the bag one by one,

0061 10:03:49:14 10:03:52:24

I took another set of balloons out

which were smaller,

0062 10:03:52:24 10:03:58:22

and got the idea of sharing worries

would reduce the worry you may have.

0063 10:03:58:22 10:04:01:19

..very, very worried.

Very worried. Yeah?

0064 10:04:01:19 10:04:05:21

If you could take them

to the doctor's,

0065 10:04:05:21 10:04:08:20

you could get

a prescription for them.

0066 10:04:10:18 10:04:14:08

Children can be reluctant to return

to school after a bereavement,

0067 10:04:14:08 10:04:19:08

but at Heron all six bereaved pupils

came back on the first day of term.

0068 10:04:19:08 10:04:21:08

But before they went into lessons,

0069 10:04:21:08 10:04:24:10

John told their classmates

what had happened.

0070 10:04:24:10 10:04:27:17

I and the class teacher

talked to the children

0071 10:04:27:17 10:04:33:00

about the death of a parent of

one of the children in their class.

0072 10:04:33:00 10:04:35:09

In one particular class,

three parents.

0073 10:04:35:09 10:04:40:01

And, again, stressed to them that

it was a very unusual occurrence

0074 10:04:40:01 10:04:42:24

and that they needn't get worried

0075 10:04:42:24 10:04:46:16

about a similar occurrence

happening to them.

0076 10:04:46:16 10:04:51:06

But then we also talked about

how we could support their classmate

0077 10:04:51:06 10:04:53:10

coming back into school.

0078 10:04:53:10 10:04:57:06

What strategies we could use,

0079 10:04:57:06 10:05:00:17

and how those children coming back

into school might react,

0080 10:05:00:17 10:05:02:22

and how to deal with

those reactions.

0081 10:05:05:10 10:05:07:17

The parents

brought them into my office.

0082 10:05:07:17 10:05:09:22

I remember we had

a bit of a group hug.

0083 10:05:09:22 10:05:14:20

I was nervous and scared.

0084 10:05:14:20 10:05:16:24

I just didn't know what to do.

0085 10:05:16:24 10:05:22:10

And when we were in there talking in

his office I didn't know what to say

0086 10:05:22:10 10:05:24:17

and I was a bit, like, shaky.

0087 10:05:24:17 10:05:26:15

I took them into the playground,

0088 10:05:26:15 10:05:29:24

and they just drifted

and melted in with their friends.

0089 10:05:29:24 10:05:32:17

It was interesting,

within about 30 seconds

0090 10:05:32:17 10:05:37:09

one of the boys was putting on his

trainers and going to play football.

0091 10:05:37:09 10:05:40:04

So it was trying to keep it

as normal as possible.

0092 10:05:40:04 10:05:44:00

After a few hours I was fine,

0093 10:05:44:00 10:05:48:14

but then I just think sometimes

I shouldn't be laughing, having fun,

0094 10:05:48:14 10:05:52:07

cos my mum's just died, but I know

my mum would want me to have fun.

0095 10:05:54:22 10:05:58:04

(narrator) It's been six weeks

since Matthew's mother died.

0096 10:05:58:04 10:06:02:09

In that time his teacher has noticed

some uncharacteristic behaviour.

0097 10:06:02:09 10:06:04:15

How has she responded?

0098 10:06:04:15 10:06:06:22

By talking to him and saying,

0099 10:06:06:22 10:06:11:09

"Matthew, can you see

what's different in your behaviour?"

0100 10:06:11:09 10:06:14:17

"Can you tell me

why you're acting in this way?"

0101 10:06:14:17 10:06:18:18

Then going on to say, "But can you

understand why it's inappropriate?"

0102 10:06:18:18 10:06:22:00

"I wouldn't let other children

in the class behave that way,

0103 10:06:22:00 10:06:25:06

so that must apply to you as well."

0104 10:06:25:06 10:06:29:15

But also at the same time saying,

"I understand as far as I can

0105 10:06:29:15 10:06:32:17

what you're going through

and it must be a difficult time,

0106 10:06:32:17 10:06:36:02

but this behaviour can't carry on."

0107 10:06:36:24 10:06:40:07

(narrator) Lucy has three

bereaved children in her class.

0108 10:06:40:07 10:06:44:20

She's making a list of significant

dates such as the parents' birthdays

0109 10:06:44:20 10:06:48:07

so she'll know when they might

be feeling particularly upset.

0110 10:06:48:07 10:06:51:04

This day today

is a special day because...

0111 10:06:51:04 10:06:55:02

You can tell your teacher why,

and then maybe in that class

0112 10:06:55:02 10:07:01:01

you might like to make a card or

bring in a photo on that day. Yeah?

0113 10:07:01:01 10:07:06:14

When it's Father's Day I'll put a

Father's Day card on my dad's grave.

0114 10:07:06:14 10:07:10:22

Probably make a card

and then put it down by the photo.

0115 10:07:10:22 10:07:14:13

(Lucy) Down by the photo

in your house? That's a nice idea.

0116 10:07:14:13 10:07:19:08

I think it's particularly important

to know the families' beliefs.

0117 10:07:19:08 10:07:24:23

For example, one of the families

had a humanist ceremony

0118 10:07:24:23 10:07:28:14

when the mother died,

so it's important to know

0119 10:07:28:14 10:07:32:00

how the parents want

to talk about what's happened.

0120 10:07:33:06 10:07:35:14

When we talked about Jack's dad

0121 10:07:35:14 10:07:38:08

and how he'd have been proud

of his spelling scores,

0122 10:07:38:08 10:07:43:01

I turned the question round to ask

Jack where he thought his dad was.

0123 10:07:43:01 10:07:46:21

He said that his dad was up in

heaven and would be watching him,

0124 10:07:46:21 10:07:52:11

and then his dad would know somehow

that he'd had a good spelling score.

0125 10:07:52:11 10:07:56:03

- How's Dad?

- Yeah, he's fine. He's coping.

0126 10:07:56:03 10:07:59:01

(John) Just asking the question,

"Are you OK today?"

0127 10:07:59:01 10:08:02:08

And giving the opportunity

to talk when they want to.

0128 10:08:02:08 10:08:06:12

I think that's the key - for them

to decide when they want to talk.

0129 10:08:06:12 10:08:10:14

It's not always when you'd

expect it. Often it's incidental.

0130 10:08:10:14 10:08:15:04

It may be in the context of doing

work with the teaching assistant

0131 10:08:15:04 10:08:18:15

that almost incidentally

they'll throw into the conversation

0132 10:08:18:15 10:08:21:21

that something's happened,

or they're feeling sad,

0133 10:08:21:21 10:08:25:07

or they're not coping with

the routine at home, or whatever.

0134 10:08:25:07 10:08:28:10

And I think it's picking up on

those small bits of information

0135 10:08:28:10 10:08:31:17

and then keeping

the school community informed

0136 10:08:31:17 10:08:35:13

and aware that

the child's feeling like that.

0137 10:08:35:13 10:08:39:03

My youngest in his class

just wanted to talk about his mum,

0138 10:08:39:03 10:08:42:03

so the teacher stopped the class,

they all got around,

0139 10:08:42:03 10:08:45:02

and he had ten minutes and

he actually talked about his mum,

0140 10:08:45:02 10:08:47:11

and he felt so much better for that.

0141 10:08:47:11 10:08:50:22

(narrator) Julie knew the brothers

before their mother's death.

0142 10:08:50:22 10:08:53:11

- This is your memory box?

- Yeah.

0143 10:08:53:11 10:08:58:23

I'm just reminding myself, it's

about six weeks since Mummy died.

0144 10:08:58:23 10:09:01:16

- Yeah.

- I'm looking forward to seeing it,

0145 10:09:01:16 10:09:04:03

and I know that Mr Coles is too.

0146 10:09:04:04 10:09:08:03

You've been putting together some

things that are important to you,

0147 10:09:08:03 10:09:10:07

- that help you think about Mum.

- Yeah.

0148 10:09:10:07 10:09:13:00

- Are you gonna show us something?

- Yeah.

0149 10:09:13:00 10:09:15:17

(John) Want me to hold the lid?

0150 10:09:15:17 10:09:20:02

- The photo.

- I haven't seen this one yet.

0151 10:09:20:02 10:09:22:11

- Have you seen that?

- No. It's beautiful.

0152 10:09:22:11 10:09:26:19

So when you look

at that photo, yeah,

0153 10:09:26:19 10:09:29:04

cos Mum's really hugging you

in that one.

0154 10:09:29:04 10:09:32:01

What do you think about

when you look at that?

0155 10:09:32:01 10:09:34:04

All our happy times together.

0156 10:09:34:04 10:09:37:02

"To Mum,

I'm always thinking of you."

0157 10:09:37:02 10:09:41:19

"I wish I could see your face

one more time."

0158 10:09:41:19 10:09:45:07

"Love forever...

Love you forever, Adam."

0159 10:09:45:07 10:09:47:17

Oh, that's a lovely message.

0160 10:09:47:17 10:09:49:17

- Are these kisses?

- Mm-hm.

0161 10:09:49:17 10:09:53:12

- Do they go all round the box?

- Yeah, all the way round.

0162 10:09:53:12 10:09:56:24

Wow. So you're sending

a lot of kisses up to Mummy?

0163 10:09:56:24 10:09:59:06

- Mm-hm.

- Where do you think Mummy is now?

0164 10:09:59:06 10:10:00:13

Heaven.

0165 10:10:00:13 10:10:04:14

I suppose in some ways it might seem

quite strange to have a memory box,

0166 10:10:04:14 10:10:07:17

and what does that mean?

But its importance for a child,

0167 10:10:07:17 10:10:11:09

especially younger children

whose memory is developing...

0168 10:10:11:09 10:10:13:16

If, for example, a five-year-old,

0169 10:10:13:16 10:10:16:14

there's no photos of the person

who died around the house,

0170 10:10:16:14 10:10:20:18

that's all packed away and

there's no physical reminders,

0171 10:10:20:18 10:10:23:18

and therefore no chance

to rehearse stories or memories,

0172 10:10:23:18 10:10:27:10

by the time that child's six

they'll have no spontaneous memory

0173 10:10:27:10 10:10:31:04

of somebody who was

really important in their lives.

0174 10:10:31:04 10:10:35:03

Sometimes it helps when you're

feeling very sad to actually laugh.

0175 10:10:35:03 10:10:37:10

I... That's really special...

0176 10:10:37:10 10:10:40:23

(Julie) When Matthew talked about

being elected to the school council

0177 10:10:40:23 10:10:45:09

and physically had a note where his

mum had said how proud she was...

0178 10:10:45:09 10:10:48:16

"Congratulations, Matthew,

on becoming house captain

0179 10:10:48:16 10:10:50:14

and a member of the school council."

0180 10:10:50:14 10:10:54:23

..that kind of impact on

his self-identity, his self-esteem

0181 10:10:54:23 10:10:57:05

will be so important, not just now,

0182 10:10:57:05 10:11:00:17

but he's got an important transition

to make in a few months' time -

0183 10:11:00:17 10:11:02:17

going to secondary school.

0184 10:11:02:17 10:11:06:09

Things are not going to be

as easy, cosy and comforting

0185 10:11:06:09 10:11:10:01

as they are in the primary school.

0186 10:11:10:01 10:11:14:02

This is Mum's scarf and her gloves.

0187 10:11:14:02 10:11:17:06

(Julie) The important thing

for children is to have a chance

0188 10:11:17:06 10:11:21:16

to share in a very safe way

their memories.

0189 10:11:21:16 10:11:24:03

Maybe she used this

on Bonfire Night.

0190 10:11:24:03 10:11:27:22

Sometimes the surviving parent

can feel very naturally emotional

0191 10:11:27:22 10:11:31:11

when they hear those stories,

whereas somebody more distanced,

0192 10:11:31:11 10:11:36:10

like a teacher or me, you can hear

it in an emotionally modulated way.

0193 10:11:36:10 10:11:38:15

And that's what children need -

0194 10:11:38:15 10:11:43:18

a safe person to rehearse things

which for them are very important -

0195 10:11:43:18 10:11:48:03

because their mum isn't physically

present to say how great they are.

0196 10:11:52:04 10:11:56:00

(reporter) The mangled wreckage of a

helicopter was found in dense woods

0197 10:11:56:00 10:11:58:16

in the Blackdown Hills

early this morning.

0198 10:11:58:16 10:12:04:17

There would have been little chance

of survival. Police found bodies...

0199 10:12:04:17 10:12:07:13

(narrator) One of the victims

was a 15-year-old pupil

0200 10:12:07:13 10:12:10:05

at CleeveSchool,

just outside Cheltenham.

0201 10:12:10:05 10:12:13:10

The school found out about his death

on Monday morning.

0202 10:12:13:10 10:12:16:20

I called an assembly together

of James's year group,

0203 10:12:16:20 10:12:19:05

knowing that students

would be distressed,

0204 10:12:19:05 10:12:22:22

but not knowing at that point

how many knew and how many didn't.

0205 10:12:22:22 10:12:25:19

So I ran the assembly

for the normal 15-minute period,

0206 10:12:25:19 10:12:31:05

giving the students some time

to be together and talk together.

0207 10:12:31:05 10:12:34:18

And I wanted to encourage students

to go to their normal lessons

0208 10:12:34:18 10:12:36:24

and to try and get back to reality.

0209 10:12:36:24 10:12:41:22

However, it was quite clear that

James's close friends, and students

0210 10:12:41:22 10:12:46:08

who had experienced bereavement

recently from members of family,

0211 10:12:46:08 10:12:50:23

would not be able to do that, so

we needed to set up, I felt, a place

0212 10:12:50:23 10:12:54:08

where they could go for the day

so that they could be together,

0213 10:12:54:08 10:12:58:06

could talk, could begin to start

the grieving process.

0214 10:12:59:14 10:13:03:12

We came to this room as it had the

crucial ingredient of running water,

0215 10:13:03:12 10:13:05:13

which most rooms don't have,

0216 10:13:05:13 10:13:08:19

because we wanted to make

lots of cups of tea

0217 10:13:08:19 10:13:11:06

and get students busy

in making the tea,

0218 10:13:11:06 10:13:15:21

but also to signify to them this was

a special day and a different day,

0219 10:13:15:21 10:13:18:02

because they don't get tea often.

0220 10:13:18:02 10:13:21:17

We started a memory board here.

It wasn't actually the board,

0221 10:13:21:17 10:13:24:12

it was just the beginnings

of memories in order

0222 10:13:24:12 10:13:27:03

that students began

to express how they were feeling,

0223 10:13:27:03 10:13:29:03

and it's something

they were keen on.

0224 10:13:29:03 10:13:31:20

So we had lots of pads

of Post-it notes all around

0225 10:13:31:20 10:13:35:00

and they were going up and

sticking things on the main board.

0226 10:13:35:00 10:13:40:01

As they went up they could read what

the others had written about James.

0227 10:13:40:01 10:13:43:05

And that helped because

they could put up their memory

0228 10:13:43:05 10:13:47:22

and read what somebody else said and

say, "Who wrote he liked Burberry?"

0229 10:13:47:22 10:13:52:03

It lightened the atmosphere just

slightly and provoked conversations.

0230 10:13:52:03 10:13:55:20

And there were some funny memories

and funny stories about James there,

0231 10:13:55:20 10:13:59:08

which just helped.

After a very difficult start,

0232 10:13:59:08 10:14:01:11

where there were lots of tears,

0233 10:14:01:11 10:14:04:03

it helped to remember

the good things about James.

0234 10:14:04:03 10:14:07:11

And they've said since

they found that very helpful indeed.

0235 10:14:08:12 10:14:11:24

"James, well, now you can see

how much people love you."

0236 10:14:11:24 10:14:15:22

"You'll be missed so much and

we'll always be thinking of you."

0237 10:14:15:22 10:14:18:24

"God in heaven, God above,

please protect the friend I love."

0238 10:14:18:24 10:14:21:00

"I'm gonna miss you loads."

0239 10:14:21:00 10:14:26:05

"Still ain't found your brace. I'll

never forget that time at my party."

0240 10:14:26:05 10:14:30:01

"You will always be remembered, not

just by me but by all who knew you."

0241 10:14:30:01 10:14:31:21

"Rest in peace, James."

0242 10:14:31:21 10:14:36:08

In the assembly, I had tears

in my eyes I was trying to hold in.

0243 10:14:36:08 10:14:40:16

And then when they went out

I just couldn't stop crying.

0244 10:14:40:16 10:14:42:16

It was just so upsetting.

0245 10:14:42:16 10:14:48:03

Then it got better and people could

let their emotions out on the board,

0246 10:14:48:03 10:14:50:15

and it made you feel a lot better.

0247 10:14:50:15 10:14:52:24

It gets all your thoughts on paper

0248 10:14:52:24 10:14:56:08

and it's easier than

having them trapped inside you.

0249 10:14:56:08 10:14:58:20

Like, you might not

want to say them out loud.

0250 10:14:58:20 10:15:02:18

You just write them on paper, then

you know all your thoughts are out.

0251 10:15:02:18 10:15:05:20

(narrator) Both James and his father

died in the crash.

0252 10:15:05:20 10:15:09:06

The family's ice-cream business

was well-known locally.

0253 10:15:09:06 10:15:12:09

This kid said... cos you know

he had the ice cream?

0254 10:15:12:09 10:15:16:05

He thought it was quite funny to say

there'd be no more ice cream left.

0255 10:15:16:05 10:15:18:00

And he got suspended...

0256 10:15:18:00 10:15:21:11

- (group laugh)

- ..cos he hit him.

0257 10:15:21:11 10:15:25:00

I lost my temper and snapped

and just hit him...

0258 10:15:26:07 10:15:29:03

which, in some ways,

I know it was wrong

0259 10:15:29:03 10:15:36:08

but personally I think James would

have done the same for me, so...

0260 10:15:36:08 10:15:40:14

A death of your community, and in

this case of your school community,

0261 10:15:40:14 10:15:42:21

can have a significant effect

on others

0262 10:15:42:21 10:15:46:14

because of other things that have

happened, like previous bereavements

0263 10:15:46:14 10:15:49:19

or just the way

that they handle death.

0264 10:15:49:19 10:15:56:02

It doesn't have to be somebody that

knew the person well who's affected.

0265 10:15:56:02 10:16:00:18

It might be... Our students

are bussed in quite often.

0266 10:16:00:18 10:16:06:06

Lots and lots of young people that

took James's bus were very upset.

0267 10:16:06:06 10:16:09:24

They didn't really know him, but

they knew where he sat on the bus

0268 10:16:09:24 10:16:14:10

and they'd see him about the place,

and they found that very hard.

0269 10:16:14:10 10:16:19:00

So for us, we had to remember

that there were those links

0270 10:16:19:00 10:16:23:06

between James and lots of people

throughout the school,

0271 10:16:23:06 10:16:26:13

and you have to remember

they might be affected as well.

0272 10:16:27:09 10:16:31:23

What I would like you to do is

quietly, for the first five minutes,

0273 10:16:31:23 10:16:34:19

think about your five memories.

0274 10:16:34:19 10:16:38:07

What are your five memories

of James?

0275 10:16:38:07 10:16:40:05

A week after James's funeral,

0276 10:16:40:05 10:16:42:23

Brendan McIntyre,

from a bereavement charity,

0277 10:16:42:23 10:16:45:20

talks to James's tutor group.

0278 10:16:45:20 10:16:49:12

What was he like? What was he into?

0279 10:16:49:12 10:16:53:00

- Music.

- Music. Yeah?

0280 10:16:53:00 10:16:56:21

(Brendan) The memory jar activities

are about giving people the chance

0281 10:16:56:21 10:17:01:00

just to think about their memories

of James and the person that's died.

0282 10:17:01:00 10:17:07:05

And doing it in a group, it allows

them to hear each other's memories

0283 10:17:07:05 10:17:11:16

and also to have a laugh and a joke

and remember good stuff about him.

0284 10:17:11:16 10:17:13:11

What do you remember?

0285 10:17:13:11 10:17:18:24

They rely on each other a great deal

and adults need to engage with them

0286 10:17:18:24 10:17:22:10

that's maybe less in their face,

if you like,

0287 10:17:22:10 10:17:26:10

because I think sometimes teenagers

have a view about adults already,

0288 10:17:26:10 10:17:32:08

and that role between teachers and

pupils is a difficult one as well.

0289 10:17:32:08 10:17:36:05

Suddenly you're taking a view where

you may be asking them how they are

0290 10:17:36:05 10:17:39:06

and maybe you've not asked them