Seminar Questions
06. 08. June 2013 in Bettendorf, Iowa
Jahresversammlung VDD-Gruppe Nordamerika
I. VJP and HZP Questions
Question 1:During a Breed Test, is it permissible, between evaluation phases, for a choke chain collar or martingale collar to be used on the dog.An example would be when the dog is walking on lead as part of the drive line when looking for hare/rabbits, or when walking on lead in the field while waiting for a field search opportunity.
Answer 1:No, it is not permissible. The test is deemed to have started when the dogs are called. As of this point in time, the use of training collars is not permitted. Whether the use of a Martingale collar with a limited choke action is permitted has to be decided on a case to case basis. If the limited choke action is delayed, the effect is the same as a regular choke collar and hence prohibited.
Question 2:Is a moving bird or game the only situation that would constitute an 11 in point?
Answer 2:The dog must show something "special" to receive 11 points in pointing.
Such a special demonstration is almost always the case when game is moving. However, it is also possible for a dog with a keen nose to begin pointing at a far distance from the game and showing good manners behind game by cautiously moving towards the game. The end result is the same, meaning the dog showed something special.
When evaluating the subject pointing, it is not important whether the dog points 2 or 10 times, but how the dog is pointing!
Question 3:At a VJP, a dog points at the edge of a hedgerow. A rabbit flushes and runs out the other side of the cover. The dog follows through the cover, and after a brief chase, follows the scent track of the rabbit into another patch of cover. The dog is not heard to bark. The judging team records the manner of hunting as “stumm” based on this single encounter.
Was this correct?
Answer 3:In light of such a brief chase, the dog is not to be marked "stumm".
If the dog has no other opportunity to demonstrate manner of hunting, the dog is to be marked "fraglich” (questionable)".
Question 4: Dog chases a hare for a few hundred meters and no bark is heard. Should the dog be marked as “stumm” based on this single encounter?
Answer 4:The VJP is a natural ability test and the dogs under evaluation are still fairly young. At this stage of their lives, they should not be marked "stumm (silent)". The dog should be given another opportunity.
Question 5:Judges observe a hare track and start a dog, but the dog only goes a few meters and will not go farther on the track.
Is it permissible to start another dog on this same track at the beginning?
Answer 5:Yes, another dog may be started on this track.It is within the judges’ discretion.
Question 5 cont´d:Is it permissible to start another dog on this same track at a point past where the first dog went?
Answer:Yes, that is possible. It is within the judges’ discretion.
Question 5 cont´d:If this is permissible, would the score of the second dog be Not Sufficient if it was not able to take the track forward?
Answer:No, the track is then deemed "not picked up". The performance will not be evaluated!!
II. HZP Questions:
Question 6:In order for a dog to receive an 11 or 12 in search behind the live duck is there a minimum amount of time the dog must search and work?
Answer 6:The search behind the live duck may not exceed 15 minutes. If the judging team thinks it has arrived at an evaluation of the dog, it can terminate the dog’s work earlier.
On the other hand, a dog might be able to seize the duck in the cover and deliver correctly within 9 minutes. It is certainly possible for a dog to deliver a very good performance within such time frame. If this is the case, the dog must receive an appropriately high score.
Question 7: An HZP dog is returning from a water retrieve with a duck in its mouth, and while still swimming a live duck flushes from cover in close proximity to the dog and swims off. The dog sees this fleeing duck, releases the duck in its mouth and chases after the live duck.
Would this dog fail the retrieve in progress, or because of extra ordinary circumstances be given another chance to complete the retrieve?
Answer 7:The dog can work the live duck.If the dog delivers a performance that can be evaluated, the appropriate score must be entered in the score sheet!
After the dog has completed the work behind the live duck, it must retrieve the duck which the dog previously let go. For this subject, the handler is allowed to start his dog again.
Question 7 cont’d: If this retrieve was on the blind retrieve, would you start the blind completely over?
Answer:No; a new dead duck will not be placed. The subject “Blind Retrieve from Dense Cover” will be continued after the dog finished the work with the live duck which it encountered by chance. For the continuation of the blind retrieve, the handler is allowed to command his dog to fetch the dead duck.
Question 7cont’d: If this retrieve was on the search behind living duck would you completely redo the
search behind living duck, or simply make the dog retrieve the bird it left?
Answer:The dog only has to retrieve this duck. The handler is allowed to restart his dog for the retrieve.
Question 8:What is appropriate noise and handler movement when a dog is returning with game and behaving correctly?
Answer 8:Normal hunting behavior
Question 9:Is arm and hat waiving allowed and if so to what distance?
Answer 9:Yes, the handler is allowed to address his dog as long as the dog is working correctly. In terms of distances: beginning at approximately 50 m for a 300 m drag, or for water retrieve work: as soon as the dog swims towards the handler.
Question 10:Is clapping allowed?
Answer 10:Yes, for the drags when the dog is approximately 50 m in front of the handler. For water work, as soon as the dog has seized the duck and is swimming back towards the handler. Most important is the rule that the dog must be working correctly for the handler to be allowed to address his dog.
Question 11:Is leg patting allowed?
Answer 11:Yes, for the drags when the dog is approximately 50 m in front of the handler. For water work, as soon as the dog has seized the duck and is swimming back towards the handler. Most important is the rule that the dog must be working correctly for the handler to be allowed to address his dog.
Question 12:Is calling the dog’s name allowed, in close or distant proximity?
Answer 12:It depends. More important than the distance is the tone of voice.
Question 13:Is saying good boy or girl allowed?
Answer 13:YES
Question 14: At an HZP and VGP, must or should the person placing the duck for the blind retrieve return from that place?
Answer 14:The person must hide after placing the duck. He must be able to observe from his hiding place whether the dog seizes the duck or leaves it at the placed location.
The judge must return if it is possible to observe the dog from the starting point.
Question 14cont´d:Should or must the person placing the dead duck for the blind retrieve NOT be seen on his way back by the dog to be evaluated on that placed duck?
Answer:No, the dog must not be started until the judge who placed the duck has returned.
Question15:At the HZP, if a searching dog comes upon a live game animal, catches and eats the game is the dog failed even if the animal was not one of the 5 scored HZP retrieves?
Answer 15:Failed. Game eaters cannot pass the test.
Question 15 cont´d:If, during the field portion, the searching dog comes upon live game and catches it, is the dog required to bring this game to the handler?
Answer 15:No
Question 16:How close does a dog need to return with game before dropping the game for the retrieve to be judged complete? 1 meter, 5 meters, 10 meters, 20 meters?
Answer 16:Approximately 10 m.
Question 16cont´d:Is there a difference between land and water?
Answer:No
Question 16 cont´d:Is there a difference in allowed distances from HZP to VGP?
Answer:No
Question 17:If a dog dropped a live bird in close proximity to the handler and the dropped bird escaped, would this dog fail the retrieve?
Answer 17:The dog is not required to retrieve live game during the field work. The dog is allowed, for example, to seize and kill game during the field search. The dog is not required to bring this game to the handler. But the dog must not bury or eat such game.
Question 17 cont´d:Would the dog fail the retrieve if it dropped a live duck during water work cont’d in close proximity to the handler and it escaped?
Answer:In this case, the dog does not pass because the retrieve of live ducks has already been worked during water work. The correct retrieve is a fundamental requirement for water work! And for that reason, a dog that does not correctly retrieve during either the gun sensitivity test at the water or the blind retrieve portion, may not be tested with a live duck!!
Question 18:Dog stops on retrieve and drops the game. The dog stands over the game and no commands are given by the handler. After a short time the dog picks up the game on its own accord and successfully delivers the game to the handler.
Does this dog still pass this retrieve?
Answer 18:Yes, the dog passes, but the “manner of retrieve” score will be lowered.
Most importantly, at no point may the dog leave the game!!
Question 19:At an HZP, a dog is sent on the blind retrieve. Before reaching the placed dead duck, he encounters a live duck, which escapes. The dog is evaluated in the subject of duck search, as per VZPO §14B(2)(g). He searches through the cover and works the scent trail of this duck, succeeds in producing the duck so that it may be shot, and retrieves the shot duck to the handler. After the retrieve is complete, the handler is told by the judges that his dog now needs to complete the blind retrieve, but that he may not give any command to send the dog, since one had already been given for the blind retrieve.
Was this correct?
Answer 19:The judges were wrong. The handler is allowed to start his dog again and support it.
Question20:At an HZP, a dog performs in a very good manner during the duck search, diligently following the scent trail across open water and through heavy cover. He eventually follows the track up onto the opposite bank, where he disappears for several minutes. He reappears with the live duck at the edge of the water, and after quite a bit of hesitation re-enters the water and slowly makes his way back to his handler with obvious reluctance. He circles around in the water and mouths the duck on his way back. The dog does eventually bring the duck to his handler without intervention, although once back on land the manner of retrieve continues to deteriorate, and the dog receives a score of “Sufficient” - 4 points - for this retrieve. The judges evaluate the duck search as “Good” - 7 points - because of the dog’s reluctant return to his handler with the duck, citing the fact that if the dog had failed to retrieve the duck, it would have received an “Insufficient” – 0 points – in the duck search as well as manner of retrieve. The predicates for Cooperation and Obedience are also lowered, despite a very good performance in the field.
Is it appropriate to take into account Manner of Retrieve while scoring Duck Search, Cooperation and Obedience?
Answer 20:The judges evaluated the manner of retrieve correctly!
If the dog performs with at least sufficient (3 points) in the manner of the duck retrieve, then the subject “search behind live duck” must be scored separately from the retrieve and from cooperation and obedience.In the case at hand, the dog’s performance was weak in the retrieve of the seized duck, yet the dog scored 4 points for the performance; the score for the natural ability subject “search behind live duck” may not be lowered based on the dog’s weakness in the retrieve.
The dog already receives a lesser score with its retrieve performance being evaluated only “sufficient”. The retrieve performance has no influence on cooperation and obedience.
The final score in “Manner of Retrieve” is made up of three (3) retrieve performances. As an example, these are:
Furred game drag (hare/rabbit)10 points
Feathered game drag 10 points
Water retrieves
-Gun sensitivity test 10 points
-Blind retrieve10 points
-Search behind live duck retrieve 4 points
Subtotal water retrieves24 points
The average score of the water retrieves is therefore 24 points divided by 3 = 8 points.
The total balance of the 3 manner of retrieves (2 drags and 1 water average) is 28 points divided by 3= 9.33 points.
Hence, the overall score for the manner of retrieve for this dog is 9 points.
Question21: During the feathered game drag at an HZP, a dog returns happily and willingly to his handler with the game. The handler holds his hand close to this chest with his index finger pointing upward as the dog approaches, and then gives a soft command to sit. The delivery is completed flawlessly. The judges score the manner of retrieve as “Good” – 8 points – and tell the handler that the hand signal used with the spoken “Sit” counted as two separate commands and therefore lowered the predicate.
Was this correct?
Answer 21:The judges were wrong!!The handler is allowed toact in precisely the described manner. The judges should advise the handlers before the drags begin of what exactly they are allowed to do.
Question 22:At an HZP, the dog returned from a hare drag, happily and willingly, and sat with just one not loud command (“Hold”), and sat less than one step behind the handler, facing away from the handler. The dog was scored 9 in Manner of Retrieve of the Hare, with the judges explaining that using the command “Hold” showed a lack of confidence in the dog and in not facing the handler the dog was avoiding the handler.
Was this lowering of the score to a 9 correct for the above reasons?
Answer 22:Lowering the score was correct.
Question23: At an HZP, how many times can a handler give a command to send his dog into the water after the duck is thrown into the water at the gun sensitivity portion of the test?
Answer 23:The handler can command his dog to fetch. After the command, the dog has approximately one minute to enter the water. The dog must retrieve independently each and every duck that it observes being thrown. Minimal handler support within the one minute from the command is okay (such as pointing towards the duck or encouraging words).
Question 23 cont´d:Can a handler throw a rock or another object into the water if thedog isn’t entering the water?
Answer:No; the dogsaw the duck being thrown. What more stimulation could there be? Throwing a stone is not considered minimal support!
Question 23 cont´d:Can the handler enter the water and then give the dog commands to enter the water?
Answer:No; the hunter remains on land.
Question24:At the gun sensitivity portion of the HZP, the dog has entered the water & is swimming towards the duck and the shot is fired into the water. The dog first swims past the duck to the shot blast on the water to investigate the disturbance and then swims back and picks up the duck and completes the delivery to the handler.
Is this dog failed for swimming past the duck to the shot blast and then returning to the duck to make the delivery?
Answer 24:As long as the handler does not interfere, the dog passes the test.
Question 24 cont´d:Can the handler say anything to the dog as it approaches the duck, or if it swims past the duck?
Answer:While the dog is swimming towards the duck, the handler must remain absolutely quiet. Not until the dog has seized the duck and is swimming back towards the handler, may the handler praise his dog, as long as the dog is still working correctly.
Question 24 cont´d:Is there any difference as to what the handler can do between the HZP and VGP?
Answer:There is no difference in handler behavior towards his dog.
III. VGP Questions
Question25:How fast can a dog work a blood track and still be eligible to receive a score of 4?
Answer25:Handler and judges must be able to keep up with the dog by walking behind in a calm manner. Dogs that are tracking too fast cannot receive very good.