Olivia: / So, Tyler, on to you. Can you describe your relationship with the fragrance? Do you find that it's similar to Andy and Jeremy? Or do you think it's a little bit different?
Tyler: / Um, I think it's a pretty similar story. I mean, I definitely think that as far as I can recall my first introduction to fragrance was probably through my dad's cologne. And even now when I visit my dad, I'll always kind of steal some of his cologne. But I think I really started getting into fragrance when I moved to New York, and I think being kind of involved in like the fashion world, fragrance was a big part of that for me. And kind of what Jeremy was saying, a part of how you self-present and how you improve yourself, and it's kind of just another way to express yourself.
Olivia: / Right, which is really interesting as well that you bring up New York being sort of like a hub for discovering fragrance as ... I believe all you guys are from pretty major cities. Andy's from Chicago, you're from New York and Jeremy's in Germany and highly involved. Which brings me to my next question ...
Jeremy: / I'm actually from Cologne. You know, I'm seriously from Cologne, Germany. Central Germany.
Olivia: / Oh, I see. That brings me to my next question, doubling back to Andy, I know that you're such a big fragrance lover, but among your peers do you think that your love for fragrance is unique? Do you think that the people around you are also interested in fragrance or maybe not as much as you?
Andy: / That's a good question. I think that most men that I associate with or even just interact with are interested in using cologne. They're users. Now, I think the difference really lies in our level of interest. There are men who will wear something but they don't really care what it is. They're not so interested in experimenting with unique or high end brands, but they're okay with just buying something at a convenience store. And then there are some men who are interested in wearing it, but they're not interested in picking it out. So they'll have their wives or significant others or girlfriends pick them out. And then there are some men who are extremely interested in colognes and perfumes, and you know like me, I like to actually go out there and use technology and go to stores and test colognes out. And I spend time doing that. And I think that's more of a higher ... That's a smaller group of people, but that's like a higher interest level.
And I believe that I fall in that group of people where I'll actually go to Sephora, use their IQ technology to try to pick out a new fragrance, or I'll go to Nordstrom and use the test strip and really take in the whole experience of trying to find a different scent or something that I don't use all the time. So, for me, I feel like most men are interested, but my level is in a smaller group of people and I don't have a lot of conversations about certain brands of colognes with people unless someone compliments me and says, "Oh, I like that cologne. Where did you get it from?" But usually it's a woman complimenting me and thinks, "I'd like to get that for my boyfriend."
Olivia: / Right.
Andy: / So as a male, I think I'm a little bit segregated in a way where we're in a smaller group of that. And I believe, I feel like the panelists here today are in that group as well. But I guess we'll hear from them and see where they fall.
Olivia: / Yeah, absolutely. Which leads me to Jeremy, what about you? In your area where you're from in Cologne, do you find that you're unique in your love for fragrance?
Jeremy: / I absolutely have, of course, a lot of friends that are also fragrance enthusiasts, but generally you can say every person on this planet, I believe, is interested in being appreciated by other persons in their environment. So, of course, again as I said from the start, fragrances do benefit in this case your personality. They make you more interesting, more appealing. It's a statement just like your watch, like your clothes, and the way you talk. And talking about my friends, of course when they see my passion about it ... There's a German saying [inaudible 00:04:30] which means, "The fire has to burn in you which you want to inflame in others." And of course, when they see me talk about notes and semi-boring stuff to them, they somehow get excited by it because they see how excited I am and then at times they also get excited. But, yes of course, especially here in Cologne, I know a lot of men that are interested in fragrances and I think in general, the men are getting so much more interested in beauty products and fragrances in especially the past 10 years I would say.
Olivia: / Right, absolutely, which is why this conversation is so important to have and we're so excited to have you all here and sort of figure out how your peers, those potential fragrance consumers, can sort of feel more included and participate more in this conversation. So Tyler, what about you? What about you amongst your peers in New York?
Tyler: / I would say that fragrance is kind of is just another aspect of the lifestyle. You know, we talk about what clothes we're getting, what fragrance we're wearing. So I think it's definitely something that people are interested in. I think I've definitely, in my peer group, probably more interested than other people. Also, I had mentioned to you before that I had worked a little bit in fragrance, so I was kind of curious about how the industry works. But I think, in general, yeah most of peers are pretty interested in fragrance. Even if they're not necessarily active fragrance consumers, they're kind of aware of what's going in fragrance.
Olivia: / Which is really interesting that you bring up awareness as well because that leads me perfectly to my next question. How do you guys typically discover new brands and new fragrances? I know, Andy, you mentioned that you're in Sephora and in these stores and discovering in-store. But, are there any other ways that you discover new brands and scents?
Andy: / Yeah, absolutely. I think there's so many magazine ads these days I get, I have like Esquire, GQ, Maxim, and I'll see all these pages where it's these fragrances, and you get ... The great part about it is you don't even have to go to the store. It's right in front of you that you can just open that little flap and you could actually get a whiff of the scent of that cologne or fragrance. So, it's really convenient to go about it that way.
I'll see billboards and TV ads and they resonate with me and it'll spark my curiosity to go the store. But I've never been sold on a TV ad saying that because of the TV ad I bought the cologne, because it's more of an olfactory experience, right? So, you really have to go to the store, and for me I have to test it out. I'm not going to spend money on something just because a celebrity's endorsing it or just because I see a model with a woman around his arms and I want to be like him. It'll definitely spark my interest, so I think those are really good ways to get me to go in to the stores, but, you know, for me I typically never buy anything online without having tested it.
Now, I may buy online after using it at one point I have to re-buy it. But, for the most part, I think TV ads and magazine ads do a great job as well as the in-store experience since Sephora has the IQ that I talked about earlier and for those of you who are not familiar with that, it's just a computerized system where you can put like, "I want a warm" or "I want a beachy scent." And it'll give you 3 samples based on your preference in-store that you can try out, take home, and then if you like them you could come back in the store and buy them.
Olivia: / Right, absolutely. And Jeremy, what about you? I know that you're so involved in the Youtube space and, you know, constantly being influenced.
Jeremy: / We are, all the fragrance family, we are all fragrance freaks. We have different sources for our fragrance information. Of course websites like fragrantica or basenotes or the German site perfumo. They are mostly one of the first sites where I see new fragrance releases like really, really far before they are showed in any other kind of media before that. And otherwise, of course, I have many, many subscribers and followers that sometimes write me comments under my pictures or videos that say, "Have you seen the new Valentino Uomo Aqua? Have you smelled it already?" These types of comments I do get. I am a bit more of the insider perspect and then of course I do my research where how can I get this fragrance from?
Olivia: / Right. And just bouncing off a little bit off of Andy. You said that he typically doesn't buy a scent until he actually smells it. Are you the same way?
Jeremy: / For me it's an interesting thing we have to talk about. For me there are two ways on how a fragrance gets into my videos. Firstly, of course, when it's the big release. When people google it a lot, when it brings me a lot of clicks, that's just the case. Everybody wants to know what I think about it. If Dior releases a new fragrance, if Hugo Boss the scent gets marketing like crazy, of course everybody wants to know what I think about it.
And secondly, the second way on how I choose a fragrance to buy is when I really think it's absolutely amazing. So, I do test them in stores, and if I can't test them, I do so much research that I say, "Okay, I'm gonna blind buy it."
So that's the third way on why I purchase fragrances. Because many other people say it's a fantastic fragrance and I think that, in the end, makes the consumer decision. If friends of yours or people that you trust honestly say that it's a fantastic fragrance and not if Brad Pitt is saying it's a cool fragrance by Chanel, that didn't even work that campaign.
I think these days everything is so much gearing to what's authenticity and realness. Most people know how the world works, more or less. And I don't know if this typical marketing will work forever as it is, of course, sex sells always a of course, if you see a cool man in a suit, you want to be like him. Or he drives a great car, you want to be like him. But I think the whole world is turning more and more into this authentic realness thing that some brands are already going with.
Olivia: / Right. It's absolutely so fun to watch as well. And I agree with you that word of mouth is just so powerful.
Jeremy: / Yeah, so strong.
Olivia: / Especially in the fragrance sphere. So, Tyler, what about you? Do you discover brands in a similar way? And do you ever blind buy?
Tyler: / I would have to agree with the word of mouth thing because I think it's such an intimate thing. The type of thing where you smell it on a friend and ask what it is and it's kind of more of like a discreet process. Because fragrance is a little bit more discreet and more intimate. And I might be a little bit of an outlier in saying this, but honestly I think the most exciting way for me to discover new fragrance brands is through brick and mortar still. Even though I do pay attention to what's going on on social media, I think for something like fragrance that it's such an intimate and personal product, I love discovering it through brick and mortar. Not so much even like a department store or a multi-label store, but just small stand-alone boutiques. In the way things are merchandised and the way fragrance brands kind of create their own world and invite you into that world is really the most exciting way for me to discover.
Olivia: / Right, and just quickly just to sort of understand that in-store experience that you love, are there any stores that come to mind that are particularly engaging with their in-store experience that you can mention?
Tyler: / Yeah, I mean, I love Lelabo. I'm a huge fan of their fragrances and I think their merchandising is great. Their branding feels very authentic. I love that they make the scents on-site. It think that's really special. And it's always exciting when you walk by a store and you want to go in and see what's new, even if you know there isn't something new you want to keep going back just to kind of be in that space because it feels so good to be there.
Olivia: / Absolutely. So, just as a quick reminder to our audience, don't forget to send any questions that you may have. We're almost at the halfway mark, which I cannot believe, so please send your questions to . Now, for the big question of the day, as a male consumer, do you feel as if you are included or excluded from the fragrance world and the fragrance experience, and why or why not? Andy?
Andy: / It's interesting that you say this question, because I feel like in some ways we're included and in other ways we're excluded. So, not trying to cop out by saying both, but I'll tell you why I gave you this answer. I feel included because in magazines, billboard ads, TV ads, I feel like we're very included because cologne is very masculine, the way they advertise it, it's very geared toward men. And I see a good mix of colognes and perfumes. So that's about 50/50. So in there I feel included.
Now, when I go to some stores, brick and mortar stores in the US ... And I'd like to hear Jeremy's take on how Germany is, but at least in the US I feel like Sephora, Ulta, they're more geared towards women. You know, just from the way they set it up. Colognes are there but they're not featured, they're not, the product placement of them are more toward the back. I feel like they also, they're trying to attract more women, and I know they have more than just colognes and perfumes and make up is a huge portion of their sales, but I don't feel like they're very inclusive toward men in that respect. Now, if you go in there, the store reps treat me very nicely and they take good care of me and they help me out. But then there's stores like Nordstrom where I feel like it's more 50/50. Like perfumes are on one side, colognes are on the other side, and I feel little bit more included. So, I would say in some of the brick and mortar stores I feel ... That's how I feel about the whole situation.
Olivia: / Right. And just also, in general, as I'm starting to get more audience questions, we're mostly talking about fragrance right now, and scent and cologne. But do you feel included or excluded from, you know, just the men's beauty space in general? I'd love to get your take on both of those things.
Andy: / Yeah. I feel included in the beauty space, cause I think there's a really, really good selection and amount of products for me to choose from, and more than I'll probably ever test in my entire life. So, I do feel quite included in that respect in terms of the amount of brands, the amount of products, yeah.
Olivia: / Interesting. Jeremy, what about you?
Jeremy: / Of course, we are included, if I understand the question correctly. That we go into the store and smell as much fragrance as we want, but maybe we could gear this, in the future, a little bit more into the artistic direction to make this whole experience a bit more comfortable. Because fragrances are an art and I, I don't know, maybe you can put in a sofa, a couch, a bar, if possible ... I have to say, here in Germany, or in general, I have never been in any kind of perfume store where I wanted to stay in after I have smelled the fragrances. So maybe that's a thing to think about to make this whole experience more exciting. You know, I just go into the store, smell the fragrances and I'm gone. It's always the same thing, the girls are always the same, it's nothing special for me. And so you don't have to argue that people just try on the fragrances and buy them cheaply online because they just feel, "Okay, I'm gonna try it and I go again." Because it's like no experience.
Compare it to a bar where you go in to have a cocktail, of course, you can also drink your cocktail at home, but you see, you go to the because there is a nice experience with music and whatever kind of thing that holds you there. So, I would think, in the future, it should be a bit more interesting. I don't know how, but as you saw with Abercrombie and Finch, how they make their stores, it was a very interesting idea with their scent that lingers in the air, with the male models, maybe you have some ... I don't know if that's the smart way to do, but maybe super cute girls that are totally charming and holding their back, that don't annoy you, that's the obvious thing that you always know from the stores. And again, maybe a cocktail bar, something that keeps you there.