CITY OF NOWTHEN
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, October 27, 2009 @ 7:30 P.M.
(Minutes are being taped for transcribing purposes only)
Present: Barry Wagner Robert Mahutga Harold Jorgensen
Jeff Pilon Dale Ames Mary Rainville
Absent: Melanie Kern Jim Scheffler
Others: Barry Olson,
Building Official
Chairman Ames called the meeting to order at 7:34 PM
· Pledge of Allegiance
· Approve/Amend tonight’s meeting agenda – October 27, 2009
Pilon made motion to amend tonight’s meeting agenda of October 27, 2009 by moving Item No. 4 – Commercial Rezoning behind Item No. 6. – City of Nowthen Forms. Rainville seconded the amended motion, all in favor; motion carried.
· Approve/Amend the September 22, 2009 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes - Ames made the motion to approve September 22, 2009 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes. Wagner seconded the motion, all in favor; motion carried.
1. Floor items
Rainville apologized for missing the past two Planning & Zoning Meetings.
A concern Rainville said she had was because of all the material in this month’s P & Z packets, she was wondering if it would be possible to get the information any earlier? She said even though she had picked up the packet on Thursday, she did not have the time to go through it before this meeting. D. Mahutga said that this is the time length that is worked with in order to get all the info together. The only other way would be to have members stop in twice a month – if the part of material was available any earlier.
2. Update Sign Ordinance #14 Amendment
Ames questioned about this item. D. Mahutga said the City Council had been asked if the one Sign Ordinance amendment was to go to Public Hearing to be reviewed and then approved before the rest of the Ordinance had been gone through. Part of this one amendment was regarding the Flashing or electronically controlled or dynamic signs shall not be permitted. The Council had decided that this amendment should not go to Public Hearing at their October 13, 2009 meeting.
Pilon said he himself had misunderstood and that yes he felt that this should go into effect right away.
City of Nowthen
Planning & Zoning Mtg. October 27, 2009 Page 2
It was the consensus of the Planning & Zoning members that yes they agreed - the Sign Ordinance #14 amendment should be recommended to the City Council to be approved, go to Public Hearing and go into effect after published. This amendment to Sign Ordinance #14 is:
Section 200.3 – ILLUMINATED – Illuminated signs shall not be permitted, except in commercial district, or unless otherwise permitted under Section 200.14 of this ordinance. Flashing or electronically controlled or dynamic signs shall not be permitted.
3. Ordinance No. 31 – An Ordinance Regulating the Use of Snowmobiles, All Terrain Vehicles, Off Road Vehicles & Motorcycles
Ames commented that this Ordinance was provided to us by our former Attorney, Christian Peterson – who is no longer with the City.
Ames said he felt that this ordinance did not have enough teeth in it. He said he didn’t think it covered enough about dirt tracks for motorcycles either.
Ramsey Chief of Police, James Way was present tonight to explain the City of Ramsey’s rules for snowmobiles. He said they have handouts of their Recreational Ordinance and the Minnesota Snowmobile Safety Laws, Rules & Regulations to give to residents. He said they have adjusted this ordinance so many times in the 25 years that he has been there. He said they started with allowing them to ride anywhere and then start limiting where they could go. He said they also have a snowmobile trail map up at their City Hall to see and also put this same information in their Ramsey Newsletter.
Police Chief Way said he would be happy to sit down with a couple of the P & Z members to go over this ordinance with them. He said the City of Nowthen should call out where the snowmobiles are allowed and not allowed besides set up some hours of operation on weekdays and weekends. He said the key is to shape the ordinance in order to enforce it, as well as easy to understand.
The city needs to look at the definitions and cover everything they can. You have to also the State Laws, because you can more restrictive but not less restrictive.
Pilon asked how is Ramsey doing with their enforcement of the snowmobiling rules? Police Chief Way said if they are riding where they are not to be riding, they would get a ticket. They said because snowmobiles are easy to track – they go to the house where the tracks lead to.
There was discussion as to the no snowmobiling signs that have been placed out in the fields by a snowmobiling club and that they are out beyond the easement and should be adjusted, because these snowmobiles will go out as far as these signs are posted. Ames said this snowmobile club has not even contacted the County or the City of Nowthen regarding placing a snowmobile trail and their signs in our City.
City of Nowthen
Planning & Zoning Mtg. October 27, 2009 Page 3
Rainville made the motion to table this Ordinance #31 – An Ordinance Regulating the Use of Snowmobiles, all terrain vehicles, off road vehicles & motorcycles and someone to meet with James Way, Ramsey Chief of Police and look at and bring back to the Planning & Zoning Meeting in November. Pilon seconded the motion, all in favor; motion carried.
After a short discussion it was the consensus of the P & Z that Rainville and Pilon would set up a time to meet with Ramsey Chief of Police, James Way.
4. Comprehensive Plan Implementation Notice Memorandum to P & Z from D. Daniel Licht, AICP – Northwest Associated Consultants
Ames said after reading Daniel Licht’s memorandum it looks like the P & Z have until August 16th, 2010 to have our ordinances comply and in place.
Ames said he felt that the MUSA set aside area on Highway 47 (East Nowthen) with the 10 acre lot minimum puts a hardship on those residents. He felt that the best way is to do clustering in that area and that it would create less maintenance because of fewer roads.
It was the consensus of the Planning & Zoning that we need to do some research on clustering.
Comments & questions on memorandum of October 22, 2009 from Daniel Licht, AICP – Northwest Associated Consultants, Inc. were:
Items number 1 & 2 – both are hot to start working on, they are:
1. “A new zoning district must be established to implement the policies applicable to the MUSA Reserve Area to provide for interim rural uses including residential dwellings at not more than one dwelling unit per 10 acres until sanitary sewer utilities are made available. Nowthen may evaluate whether this zoning district is to allow for subdivision in a conventional pattern of parcels not smaller than 10 acres or if opportunities for cluster developments that allow smaller lot sizes while preserving a majority of a property in a contiguous tract for future subdivision at urban densities is to be pursued.”
2. “The City may consider establishment of a new zoning district to allow for rural cluster development intended to provide for the permanent protection of open space, natural resources, encourage a more efficient land use pattern with a distinct land use pattern. If established, this zoning district would only be applied within the Permanent Rural area upon approval of a specific development application to allow the City the greatest discretion in reviewing proposed projects. The goal in establishing a new rural cluster zoning district would be to provide greater direction and standards for the development of cluster subdivisions.”
City of Nowthen
Planning & Zoning Mtg. October 27, 2009 Page 4
The P & Z is now working on Item #3:
3. “The City will review and update as it determines appropriate development standards applicable within the CLM District including, but not limited to, allowed uses, minimum building and site improvement requirements, screening requirements, signs allowances, etc.”
Pilon said Item #4 – he didn’t remember this being an issue.
Building Official Olson said he felt that we already have this done.
Pilon thought that the change might be the fact that usually an IUP requires 5 acres to request – but now in the MUSA area it would become 10 acres.
4. “The City will review and update as it determines appropriate current allowances for home occupations and extended home occupations to ensure protection of land use compatibility.”
Item #5 – our Engineer Shane Nelson is working on.
5. “The city is required to administer shoreland, wetland and floodplain protection standards as part of the Zoning Ordinance.”
Item #6. – Pilon said he would like this clarified:
6. “Adopt standards regulating allowance of Wind Energy Conservation Systems (WECS).”
Item #7 - This will be done:
7. “Preparation of a revised Zoning Map.”
Wagner said under Item #6 – Wind Energy – our Ordinance limits the height of towers but there is no limit of the number of towers you can have.
Building Official Olson said yes we haven’t seen a demand yet but should get ahead of it.
Another question to ask Daniel Licht is when the Comprehensive Plan will be finalized with the Metropolitan Council, because the memorandum says a Community Development Subcommittee will look at our Comprehensive Plan and make a recommendation to Met Council after their November 16th meeting.
Another question to check on regarding Our Comprehensive Plan is a letter from the City of Ramsey dated October 2, 2009 which states:
“In your draft, you mention no urban services until after 2030. As you may recall, the city of Ramsey passed a resolution supporting your incorporation as a City (#07-10-289). As part of that resolution, it was stated that the city of Nowthen would procure urban services from an abutting City. The city of Ramsey continues studies to consider a surface water treatment plant per the direction of the DNR. The city of Ramsey would like to see a comment in your Comprehensive Plan again stating your support of procuring urban services from an adjacent city.”
It was consensus of the P & Z to get the Ramsey Resolution #07-10-289 to see how it reads and what is meant by urban services.
City of Nowthen
Planning & Zoning Mtg. October 27, 2009 Page 5
5. City of Nowthen Forms
a. IUP’s and CUP’s
Wagner said he felt that under Step 2, item #4. we needed a detailed site plan rather than draft a sketch. He said he felt a state certificate of survey should be done by a registered architect.
Building Official Olson said that the resident could use a ruler to show site plan drawn to scale and that our office can copy the lot for them to use, if they want.
Building Official Olson said this issue he was bringing up was not regarding the forms but that he felt that each of the P & Z members should visit the sites of IUP or CUP requests so that they would be more informed when at the meeting. It was the consensus of the P & Z members that this is a very good idea.
Pilon mentioned that he had just seen forms from Elk River and they were much more rigid than ours.
Rainville said the better the IUP & CUP application packet read, the easier for P & Z to look at and review.
It was the consensus that the packets should be separate – one for an IUP and one for a CUP. Fees would be different also.
Building Official Olson said that the site drawing should show how the resident’s buildings or accessory buildings will be situated at their property. It should also show how far it is to the property line and to their neighbor’s house. So there should be dimensions to the buildings on the requested property and the adjacent neighbor’s.
Pilon said he understood there is a satellite out there to use. Building Official Olson said yes and Corrie just went to this class and he would like to see how it works to show dimensions.
Pilon asked if we would be able to do and give to the P & Z members? Building Official Olson said yes it could be done. Pilon asked if we could expect residents to check neighbor’s dimensions. Building Official Olson said yes we could do this.
Consensus of P & Z that following should read for the amended IUP & CUP Application Packets:
Step 2. Complete the required documentation
_____4. Provide a detailed scaled drawing showing your property building and uses within 100 feet on adjacent properties. Show the roads your property is located on and show how your building(s) and/or activity will be situated at the property – make 15 copies.
City of Nowthen
Planning & Zoning Mtg. October 27, 2009 Page 6
Pilon said that Elk River only allows IUP’s for 3 years and then charges a renewal fee just to cover staffing cost.
Building Official Olson said we had thought of doing this also only for a period of 5 years. But this did not get approved.
He said we could require all businesses to be licensed by the City, and then a license would have to be renewed. We would then have to send notices out to renew license of IUP’s. This can’t be done with CUP’s – they are permanent.
Building Official Olson said he thought that businesses should be visited even by the Fire Chief besides himself.