Minutes of the Historic Aircraft Association

MINUTES OF THE HISTORIC AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION

COUNCIL MEETING

HELD AT WEST LONDON AEROCLUB

TUESDAY2nd JULY2013 AT 18:30 HOURS.

Present

Wally EptonChairman

Ken PetersTreasurer

Russell MasonSecretary Hon. Insurance Advisor

Wendy HinchcliffeMembership Secretary

Andy SmithPR and Publicity

John BroadVAC Representative

Martin Slater CJOA Representative

John Romain

Chris Royle

Mike Vaisey

Steve Slater

Bill Fisher

Stuart Powney

Item 1.Apologies

Rick Peacock-EdwardsPresident

Colin DoddsDeputy Chairman

John Farley Honorary Vice-President

Keith SissonsHonorary Vice-President

Tim ScorerHon Legal Advisor

Barry TempestRegulatory Affairs and EFLEVA

Robb MetcalfeRegulatory Affairs

Dennis Neville

Roger Hinchcliffe

Prior to the meeting the Chairman reminded Members that any details and discussion of matters arising during this meeting were to be treated as confidential. / Action party/parties
Item 2. Minutes of the last Council Meeting and Matters Arising
Minutes of the meeting held on the 30thApril 2013 were approved for accuracy and confirmed as posted on the website as presented.
Action Log – the outstanding items, if not an Agenda Item, were reviewed, updated or closed as necessary. Please refer to the Action Log for these updates.
Item 3. Finance
The Treasurer reported that the financial position of the Association remained healthy with good balances held in the bank accounts.
Bill Fisher updated Council on the sale of a collection of aviation books which he had been given to dispose of as he saw fit, having come from the estate of the late Fred Kirby – an aviation enthusiast friend of Bill’s. Certain of the proceeds are being donated to the HAA where the Council agreed they would be used as a further method of sponsorship for the 2013 HAA symposium. All considered this a very generous and greatly appreciated act by Mr Kirby’s family and a fitting tribute to a real gentleman (both Bill and the Secretary having worked with Mr Kirby in the past).
Bill has set himself a target of about £1,000 to come to the HAA, a lesser amount will go to the British Aviation Preservation Council and the remainder to organisations which he believes Fred would have wished to support. It was quite some collection! / Bill Fisher
Item 4. Membership
Wendy Hinchcliffe advised that there were now only a few memberships not paid up and current membership numbers have now reached 170.
The Chairman reported Honorary Vice President Certificates had been presented to those HVP’s on the current HAA list. Of particular note were two recent presentations for newly appointed HVP’s Keith Sissons and John Lewis. The Chairman and Vice-Chairman had great pleasure in presenting Keith Sissons Certificate to him personally. Keith was over the moon with the citation and greatly honoured. Soon after the Chairman and Treasurer presented another Honorary Vice-President Certificate to John Lewis in person. John, an ex-BAE test pilot and also a past Chief Pilot of the Shuttleworth Collection, was the Association’s original Registrar, being HAAmember No.1. Unfortunately ill-health has meant that John has been unable to attend any HAA functions for some time but the Chairman and Treasurer spent a few hours with John reliving the early days of the HAA, and as with Keith Sissons, the award of the Hon VP was a great fillip to John. The Chairman requested that suitable acknowledgement of these two events be carried in the forthcoming Newsletter.
Unfortunately the Chairman also had torecord that Barry Tempest had tended his resignation from Council due to slightly deteriorating health plus his wish that some ‘younger blood’ replace him. With regret the Chairman confirmed that he had accepted Barry’s resignation and Council were fulsome in their praise of Barry’s immense contribution to the HAA over many years. Accordingly the Chairman proposed that Barry be made an Honorary Vice President – this was seconded by Dennis Neville and carried unanimously. The Chairman and Andy Smith to action.
Following the recent appointment of Prof Michael Bagshaw as Honorary Medical Advisor to the Association it was suggested by Bill Fisher that the Duxford based doctor, Brian Wallace also be considered for the role. Chairman to investigate. / Andy Smith
Chairman /
Andy Smith
Chairman
Item 5. Future Strategy
Red Tape Challenge – the Chairman recorded that the HAA Position Paper was submitted in response to this initiative(Copy attached to these Minutes - Sec).
The Chairman advised Council of a recent telecon discussion he had with the new CAA Programme Manager, Mike Barnard. This followed Mike Barnard’s presentation a few days before to GASCo, wherein he outlined the CAA’s future GA roadmap including their response to the Red Tape Challenge (see attached report of the GASCo meeting; points of interest for HAA Members – Sec).
Mr Barnard had urged the Chairman to set up an early joint CAA/HAA meeting and this is now due to take place at Gatwick on 6th August 2013. In the telecon with the Chairman, Mr Barnard recommended that the HAA should prepare for the meeting by considering initially those major issues affecting GA.Mr Barnard wanted to move forward by identifying achievable aims of principle and the more detailed items progressively over time. The Red Tape Challenge had highlighted 300 separate items of which the CAA considered approximately 50% were actionable and of this 70 were GA centric and currently being investigated – this detailed list was presented to the GASCo meeting. This included the majority of the items recently raised by HAA and seen in the original draft of the RA² document. It was the Chairman’s opinion that Mr Barnard intended to undertake a root and branch overhaul of the way the CAA addressed GA, to which end we can expect to see a very different attitude coming out of SRG than we have in the past. Mr Barnard’s stated aim was to achieve a culture change whereby GA and the HAA would refer to “Our CAA” and not “The CAA”. This will include devolution to industry where it is appropriate, and in the industry’s best interest. This should be achieved under a set of rules that (we trust)would be proportionateand less risk averse. To this end a revised RA² document has also been issued by the CAA and was released just prior to this Council meeting so most had not had time to review it.
The Chairman also commented further on his discussions with Mr Barnard, that the perceived problem in the past of mis-interpretation of regulations by local surveyors and their lack of latitude is now recognised. Acertain amount of retraining will be necessary once new legislation is implemented. That said it will be up to industry to prove, via strategy and planning, that an innocent third party is not placed at a higher level of risk than previously; the recent removal for the necessity for CAA Permit to Fly aircraftto undergo a post permit test flight has been cited by the CAA as an example of where they are now listening and introducing positivelegislation.
Whilst the Chairman felt that the Red Tape Challenge had a lot going for it, he and Mr Barnard agreed that many of the tasks posed require work on regulations that stem fromCommercial Air Transport that impose over burdensome regulation on GA especially Annex II and ex-military aircraft. Instead the real challenge is not to address these on a piecemeal basis but encompass them all in one large set of regulations such as that seen in New Zealand withtheir ‘Part 115 Adventure Aviation’. A similar set of regulations under the title “UK CAA Adventure Aviation Regulations” will be the aim of the forthcoming HAA/CAA meeting and to introduce the first steps/building blocks in this process. The Chairman agreed to put together a suitable team to meet with the CAA representing the various interests and expertise within the HAA (since confirmed as the Chairman, Secretary, John Romain, Martin Slater, Andrew Edmondson, Steve Slater, Robb Metcalfe and Brian Jones – Sec).
John Romain asked what position the Chairman envisaged that the HAA may hold in any devolved organisation. The Chairman considered that this whole matter would unlikely to be the responsibility of just one organisation to control or pursue; more a case of conjoined associations undertaking the tasks/responsibilities perhaps reflective of their core expertise. He suggested that a particular role of the HAA might be auditing the new arrangements, but of course all is entirely up inthe air at this early stage and thus all very much subject to considerable discussion and negotiation. Certainly no conclusions should be jumped to immediately and rather than seeking a role for the HAA it must be our intention to work together with other stakeholders to find a sensible route which also reduces costs but at the same time can generate a sustainable revenue stream that makes the whole process plausible for the future. Encompassed within all this are also thematters of insurance and limited liability that will no doubt arise as discussions progress.
The Chairman requested that any additional thoughts or comments post the meeting would be gratefully received as we are all likely to have a view.
On the matter of Future Strategy the Treasurer reminded the Chairman that a follow up Engineering Conference in 2014 should be scheduled. A date of 5thFebruary2014 was recommended and the Secretary is tocontact the President as to possibility of securing the lecture theatre at Duxford (as was used earlier this year again with tea and coffee being provided) for this event. / Chairman
Chairman
All
Secretary
Secretary
President
Item 6. HAA Symposium
Date - Saturday 16th November 2013 at the RAF Museum.
Speakers –all now confirmed as follows; formal letters of invitation to be distributed per the Action Party column opposite:-
Restoration, rebuild and flight of Spitfire TE311 - Sqn Ldr Dunc Mason and Chief Technician Paul Blackah, BBMF
50 years of service; the VC-10 in military and civilian use - Sqn Ldr Cat Thompson
A lifetime in aviation - Wg Cmdr Ken Wallis
The Indian Air Force Vintage Flight - Mike Edwards
Cranfield Aerospace – hangar memories from the 60s
Steve Slater has kindly agreed to be the reserve speaker with his presentation on ‘The RAF’s (RFC) first overseas deployment - France 1914’. Assuming that this option is not taken up,Council are very keen that Steve provide this presentation in the centenary year of the Great War - at next year’s Symposium.
Ticket sales – Wendy Hinchcliffe confirmed her readiness to proceed with the ticket sales once the promotion of the event is commenced. The Secretary to confirm parking concession still available to attendees as in the past(Since confirmed by the Treasurer as unchanged from the previous year - Sec).
Promotion - Andy Smith to commence promotion of event including use of pilot forums, now that speaker line-up finalised. This would need to include the promotional poster to be distributed to the flying clubs etc.
Sponsorship - Vintech (Mike Vaisey) had kindly paid their sponsorship contribution prior to this meeting – Council noted this with appreciation;
Cranfield Aerospace had confirmed their desire to sponsor the event again to the tune of £400 with a cameo spot in the day’s presentation of a hatful of interesting photos of historic aircraft from their hangars post-war;
Fred Kirby (posthumously) – sale proceeds of his aviation book collection c/o Bill Fisher related in Agenda Item 3. above;
ARCo – John Romain generously agreed to sponsor the event again to the tune of £250 – his contribution was accepted with most grateful thanks by Council;
The Secretary advised that he hoped to raise £500 from his own company, Antares Managing Agencies at Lloyd’s.
Catering - the use of last year’s catering company was approved by Council with the RAF Museum’s new catering contractor perhaps to be considered for next year.
The Chairman advised that due to his other HAA workload that he could not contribute as much time to the Symposium organisation for this year. Accordingly Chris Royle agreed to co-ordinate the event for 2013; the organisational committee thus consists of Chris Royle, Ken Peters, Andy Smith, Wendy Hinchcliffe and Russell Mason. / Chairman
Secretary
Chris Royle
Chairman
Secretary
Wendy Hinchcliffe
Secretary
Andy Smith
Secretary
Ken Peters
Chris Royle
Item 7.HAA Events & Public Relations update
Andy Smith advised that Yeovilton/RNHF was a successful event for all participants and could be worth a repeat in the future. Other mooted events for the remainder of the year include Hawker Restorations, Phoenix Aero at Thruxton with ARCo, Vintech,BBMF and P&A Wood as other possibilities but more likely for 2014. Andy and Steve Slater (VAC) to look at possible joint promotion of these events to garner sufficient numbers.
Newsletter - Andy Smith had previously discussed the possible insertion of the HAA Newsletter inside the VAC magazine; this is currently not about to happen but may be considered inthe future or simply have our Newsletter circulated with the VACmagazine. Next Newsletter to include a précis of the HAA Position Paper.
Bill Fisher suggested sending HAA ‘news’ items to the free newspaper GA Buyer which is circulated Europe wide. They regularly have small sections on historic aircraft and Council considered this an excellent idea and should be pursued, including promotion of the 2013 Symposium. Steve Slater confirmed that he had the contact details for this publication. / Andy Smith /
Chris Royle
Andy Smith /
Steve Slater
Andy Smith
Steve Slater /
Andy Smith
Item 8. EFLEVA
In view of Barry Tempest’s resignation, John Broad has agreed to take over the mantle of HAA point of contact with this organisation. He advised that Air Britain had produced some basic European registration details for EFLEVA so hopefully they can start answering their regular questions (detailed by the Treasurer) as to the fleet in each member’s country. The Treasurer to pass on EFLEVA’s request’s in this regard to John Broad. / John Broad
Treasurer
Item 9. Any Other Business
HAA Technical Register - Wendy Hinchcliffe advised that to date she had received one request for technical info and this had been passed on to the requisite specialist.
Due to the increasing length of journeys for some Council members to reach White Waltham, the Treasurer suggested that a selection of sandwiches could be arranged for the next meeting. This was considered a good idea by all and will in place for the September meeting but of course numbers need to be known in advance.
Meeting closed / Chairman
Treasurer / Secretary

The date of the next meeting is 18th September 2013commencing at 18:30 hours at West London Aero Club, White Waltham, Berkshire.

Wally EptonRussell Mason

ChairmanSecretary

Please note that dates/timings of 2013/14 meetings appear on the website under the ‘News and Events’ tab on the home page and then under ‘Events’/’Schedule of Meetings’ entry but planned notable dates for 2013/14 are as follows – those marked (prov) are subject to confirmation/possible alteration. All meetings are currently scheduled to be held at White Waltham but this may change nearer the time of the meeting:-

Council Meeting18th September 2013

Annual Symposium (RAF Museum Hendon)16th November 2013

Council Meeting & annual dinner3rdDecember 2013

Council Meeting29th January 2014

Council Meeting29th April 2014

Council Meeting1st July 2014

Council Meeting16th September 2014

Council Meeting & annual dinner2nd December 2014

From Russell Mason, Secretary

HAA update from GASCo meeting of 27th June 2013 held @ Coventry Engineering & Computing Faculty

GASCo signed a MoU with the Engineering & Computing Faculty of Coventry University to jointly work on projects relating to GA safety - further details of this tie-up will be announced in due course.

Having had their contract to incorporate the ‘GASIL’ magazine inside GASCo’s house magazine, ‘Flight Safety’, terminated - the CAA replaced it with their own publication ‘Clued Up’ - the continued future publication of ‘Flight Safety’ was unsure. However, after much number crunching the decision was made to continue to produce ‘Flight Safety’ on a subscription basis backed up by a heavily revised website. We commend this to the HAA Council especially as the engineering data that the CAA used to incorporate in GASIL and that is no longer being published other than on the CAA website, will also be incorporated in ‘Flight Safety’. Therefore this data will get out to a wider readership than being lost within the CAA’s own website. HAA Members are positively encouraged to subscribe to ‘Flight Safety’ especially as the HAA supports GASCo with an annual donation.

The CAA’s next 3-year Safety Plan will be issued within the next 3 months albeit it was noted that there had been no consultation with GA organisations prior to release of this document.

Concern was recorded as to the inability of UK organisations to obtain accident information involving UK registered Annex II aircraft overseas, as many EU NAAs do not investigate these accidents.

Incoming CAA Programme Manager, Mike Barnard (an ex GASCo committee member for the LAA), undertook a presentation as to the future direction and tasks of the CAA’s GA SRG, both under the overarching RA² document (to be formally released within the next couple of months) and in response to the Red Tape Challenge that has now closed. The Red Tape Challenge raised over 300 items of which 50% were determined to be potentially actionable and with 70 of these being GA related - many of these duplicated issues raised by RA². From an HAA viewpoint, it should be noted that all items we have raised are included in this list of 70, which was briefly run through by Mike Barnard. Mike produced a most interesting graph (that I have tried to replicate from memory - overleaf) that he had sourced from the FAA which clearly reflected the aviation industry’s tolerance to accidents involving various forms of aviation - hence Commercial Air Transport ‘CAT’ we are very intolerant to any risk and expect full regulatory and authority intervention to eradicate risk, versus sport/Recreational GA where ambivalence seems to rule; this graph was produced some time ago but Mike Barnard considered fairly reflected the views today within aviation in the UK.