MINUTES
LABORATORY SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
SEPTEMBER 18, 2003
Department of Environmental Quality
707 N. Robinson, Room 1036
Oklahoma City Oklahoma
Approved
December 4, 2003 Special Meeting
Notice of Public Meeting The Laboratory Services Advisory Council convened for its regular meeting at 1:30 p.m. September 18, 2003 in accordance with the Open Meeting Act, Section 311 of Title 25 of the Oklahoma Statutes. Notice of regularly scheduled Council meetings were filed at the Office of the Secretary of State and Agendas were posted on the entrance doors at the DEQ Central Office in Oklahoma City at least twenty-four hours prior to the meeting.
MEMBERS PRESENTBill Janacek
Larry Brim
Jim Engman
Ali Fazel
Elaine Stebler / DEQ STAFF PRESENT
Judy Duncan
JoAnn Campbell
Barbara Rauch
David Caldwell
Monty Elder
Myrna Bruce
MEMBERS ABSENT
Tony Bright
Harry Gearhart
Paul LaMar
Terry Lyhane / OTHERS PRESENT
Sign-in sheet attached and an
official part of these Minutes.
Mr. Bill Janacek, Vice-Chair, called the meeting to order and asked Ms. Campbell to call the roll. A quorum was confirmed when Ms. Stebler arrived at 1:40. Ms. Duncan introduced the staff and guests. She also introduced Ms. Bruce who would be providing the minutes along with a transcript of the proceedings.
Election of Officers Mr. Janacek called for nominations for Chair. Mr. Engman nominated Mr. Harry Gearhart and Mr. Brim made the second.
Roll call.Larry Brim
Jim Engman
Ali Fazel / Yes
Yes
Yes / Elaine Stebler
Bill Janacek / Yes
Yes
Motion carried.
Mr. Janacek then called for nominations for Vice-Chair. Mr. Brim nominated Elaine Stebler and Mr. Engman made the second.
Roll call.Larry Brim
Jim Engman
Ali Fazel / Yes
Yes
Yes / Elaine Stebler
Bill Janacek / Yes
Yes
Motion carried.
Approval of Minutes Mr. Janacek called for motion to approve Minutes of the January 9, 2002 Regular Meeting. Mr. Engman made the motion to accept as presented and Ms. Stebler made the second.
Roll call.Larry Brim
Jim Engman
Ali Fazel / Yes
Yes
Yes / Elaine Stebler
Bill Janacek / Yes
Yes
Motion carried.
Proposed Rule Changes for DEQ Laboratory Accreditation Mr. Janacek called upon Ms. Duncan who advised that the DEQ had been contacted by the staff of the Corporation Commission about the methodologies commonly used for total petroleum hydrocarbon testing. She related that following several meetings and discussions with them, they asked the DEQ to incorporate accreditation to the Texas Method 1005 into DEQ rules. Ms. Duncan detailed the changes proposed for rule making. Ms. Duncan requested Council to consider having a special meeting in order that the Council’s approved rules could be forwarded to the Environmental Quality Board on February 28 for adoption. Mr. Brim made motion that Council direct the staff to make the proposed changes, provide notice to the accredited labs for comment, and set a special Council meeting to move the rules forward. Mr. Fazel made the second. Ms. Duncan asked that that motion be amended to set the special meeting date at December 4. Mr. Brim and Mr. Fazel agreed and Ms. Campbell called the roll.
Director’s Report Ms. Duncan reported that the laboratory is keeping up with inspections, has a few enforcement actions in process, and that she is proud of the program.
New Business Mr. Brim announced that his term has expired and expressed his gratitude to Council and staff for support thru the years.
Announcements Ms. Duncan advised that there would be three vacancies to fill on the Council.
Adjournment Hearing no further discussions, Mr. Janacek called for motion to adjourn. Mr. Fazel made the motion and Mr. Engman made the second. Meeting adjourned at 1:35 p.m.
Transcript and Attendance Sheet are attached and made an official part of these minutes.
NOTE: Minutes approved on Dec 4 with following changes:
Summary - page 2 --- time adjourned should be 2:35 p.m.
Transcript - pages 9, line 3 and page 10, line 3 ----
change Ms. Stebler to Mr. Engman
1
1
2
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
3
LABORATORY SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
4
STATE OF OKLAHOMA
5
6
7 * * * * *
8 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
9 OF LABORATORY SERVICES ADVISORY COUNCIL
10 HELD ON SEPTEMBER 18, 2003, AT 1:30 A.M.
11 IN OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
12 * * * * *
13
14
15
16
17 REPORTED BY: Christy A. Myers, CSR
18
19
20 MYERS REPORTING SERVICE
(405) 721-2882
21
22
23
24
25
2
1
MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL
2
3
1. MR. BRIM - MEMBER
4
2. MR. BRIGHT - MEMBER
5
3. MR. ENGMAN - MEMBER
6
4. MR. FAZEL - MEMBER
7
5. MR. GEARHART - MEMBER
8
6. MR. LAMAR - MEMBER
9
7. MR. LYHANE - MEMBER
10
8. MS. STEBLER- MEMBER
11
9. MR. JANACEK - CHAIR
12
13
14
15
16
STAFF MEMBERS
17
MS. JOANN CAMPBELL - SECRETARY
18
MS. MYRNA BRUCE - RECORDING SECRETARY
19
MR. DAVID CALDWELL - DEQ
20
MS. JUDY DUNCAN - CSD/DEQ
21
MS. BARBARA RAUSCH - STAFF ATTORNEY
22
23
24
25
3
1
2 PROCEEDINGS
3 MR. JANACEK: This regularly
4 scheduled meeting of the Laboratory
5 Services Advisory Council is being convened
6 in accordance with the notice of the
7 regularly scheduled Council meetings on
8 file at the Office of the Secretary of
9 State as required by the Open Meeting Act,
10 Section 311 of Title 25 of the Oklahoma
11 Statutes.
12 This notice was filed with the
13 Secretary of State by December 15, 2002.
14 The Agenda was duly posted at the Oklahoma
15 Department of Environmental Quality, 707
16 North Robinson, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma,
17 twenty-four hours prior to the meeting, in
18 accordance with Section 311 of the Open
19 Meeting Act.
20 In the event this meeting is
21 continued or reconvened, public notice of
22 the date, time, and place of the continued
23 meeting will be given by announcement at
24 this meeting. And the Agenda for such
25 continuation will remain the same as
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
4
1 today's Agenda.
2 So much for political announcement.
3 Can I have a role call, Ms. Campbell.
4 MS. CAMPBELL: Jim Engman.
5 MR. ENGMAN: Here.
6 MS. CAMPBELL: Larry Brim.
7 MR. BRIM: Here.
8 MS. CAMPBELL: Ali Fazel.
9 MR. FAZEL: Here.
10 MS. CAMPBELL: Harry Gearhart.
11 MS. CAMPBELL: Paul LaMar.
12 MS. CAMPBELL: Elaine Stebler.
13 MS. CAMPBELL: Tony Bright.
14 MS. CAMPBELL: Terry Lyhane
15 MS. CAMPBELL: Bill Janacek.
16 MR. JANACEK: Present.
17 Tony will not live this down. I can't wait
18 to see him. Okay. Any guests that need to
19 be introduced. Judy? I don't know
20 anybody.
21 MS. DUNCAN: Okay, well, I'll
22 introduce the people who are from the
23 Department of Environmental Quality who are
24 here. And at the same time I want to make
25 note of a change in the way we are doing
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
5
1 minutes.
2 In the past we have always had the
3 minutes of the various Councils done by a
4 number of different people and within the
5 last year the agency has changed our policy
6 and we have centralized that function. And
7 Myrna Bruce, who is back here is now the
8 Secretary, the Recording Secretary, of all
9 the Councils and the Environmental Quality
10 Board.
11 And we also are having the minutes
12 transcribed off of our tape. So one of the
13 things that we need to do is be sure that
14 we say who we are before we begin to speak
15 because Myrna doesn't know us all, nor will
16 the person who is doing the transcription
17 know us all. We have that done by
18 contract. So if you'll just try to
19 remember to state your name before you
20 speak, that will help as we transcribe the
21 minutes. And I've asked Myrna to -- if we
22 get into a discussion and we aren't doing
23 that -- to remind us of that. And so, if
24 you'll just mind Myrna.
25 MR. JANACEK: Myrna's doing all
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
6
1 the Councils and all of the Boards?
2 MS. DUNCAN: She's doing all the
3 Council's and the Environmental Quality
4 Board.
5 MR. JANACEK: What's she going to
6 do in her spare time?
7 MS. DUNCAN: She doesn't have any
8 spare time. This is her job and she's
9 getting us all standardized so we're doing
10 things more consistently throughout the
11 agency. It's really working. It's really
12 a much more efficient way to do it.
13 MR. JANACEK: Welcome, Myrna.
14 MS. DUNCAN: So, in addition to
15 Myrna we have to my left, Barbara Rausch,
16 who is the staff attorney assigned to the
17 Laboratory Services Advisory Council.
18 JoAnn Campbell, Secretary; Monty Elder,
19 who's the Manager for the Customer Service
20 Division, and the Laboratory Accreditation
21 Program is within her section of the
22 Division. And David Caldwell, who is the
23 program person for the Laboratory
24 Accreditation Program.
25 And then we have a couple of guests
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
7
1 in the audience. Kenneth Crawford from
2 Accurate Labs. And here's Elaine -- good.
3 And Mike Moore from the Corporation
4 Commission.
5 MR. JANACEK: Obviously, we want
6 the record to reflect that Elaine has made
7 it. We now have a quorum.
8 Okay. First order of business is
9 election of officers. Seems like we've
10 done this before. What do we need to
11 elect? Chairperson and Co-chair?
12 MS. DUNCAN: That's right. Vice-
13 chair.
14 MR. JANACEK: Vice-chair. First
15 of all, I'd accept any nominations for
16 chairperson.
17 MR. ENGMAN: I have a question.
18 Can we nominate somebody who is not
19 present?
20 MS. DUNCAN: I presume -- if they
21 are willing to serve, I presume so.
22 MR. ENGMAN: The reason I am
23 asking is because everybody here has
24 already served and there are some people
25 who have been on the Council for a while
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
8
1 that have not been officers. So with that
2 in mind I would nominate Harry Gearhart as
3 Chairman.
4 MR. BRIM: I'll second that
5 motion.
6 MR. JANACEK: I have the
7 nomination.
8 MR. BRIM: This is Larry Brim to
9 second the motion.
10 MR. JANACEK: I have the
11 nomination and a second for Harry Gearhart,
12 who is not here. That's usually the way it
13 happens at most meetings I go to. Any
14 other nominations? Nominations cease.
15 Move that Harry be accepted by acclimation.
16 All in favor say aye.
17 COUNCIL MEMBERS: (Unanimously),
18 aye.
19 MR. JANACEK: Those opposed.
20 Hearing none. Welcome aboard, Harry.
21 MS. DUNCAN: Bill, we have to do
22 a roll call vote.
23 MR. JANACEK: Roll call vote.
24 The attorney tells you that?
25 MS. CAMPBELL: Elaine Stebler.
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
9
1 MS. STEBLER: In favor.
2 MS. CAMPBELL: Jim Engman.
3 MS. STEBLER: In favor.
4 MS. CAMPBELL: Larry Brim.
5 MR. BRIM: Favor.
6 MS. CAMPBELL: Ali Fazel.
7 MR. FAZEL: (inaudible).
8 MS. CAMPBELL: Bill Janacek.
9 MR. JANACEK: Aye.
10 Okay, I'll entertain motions for a
11 Vice-Chair. Motions for a Vice-Chair.
12 I will do it if nobody else wants to do it.
13 MR. BRIM: Well, I nominate for
14 Vice-Chair, Elaine.
15 MS. STEBLER: I'm not even sure
16 I'm on the Council.
17 MS. DUNCAN: Yes, you are.
18 MR. ENGMAN: I'll second the
19 motion.
20 MR. JANACEK: I have a motion and
21 second for Elaine. Will you accept?
22 MS. STEBLER: Yes.
23 MR. JANACEK: Call the roll.
24 MS. CAMPBELL: Elaine. Does she
25 vote for herself?
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
10
1 MS. DUNCAN: If she doesn't vote,
2 we don't have a quorum.
3 MS. STEBLER: Yes.
4 MS. CAMPBELL: Jim.
5 MR. JANACEK: Yes.
6 MS. CAMPBELL: Larry Brim.
7 MR. BRIM: Yes.
8 MS. CAMPBELL: Ali Fazel.
9 MR. FAZEL: Yes.
10 MS. CAMPBELL: Bill Janacek.
11 MR. JANACEK: Yes. Welcome
12 aboard, Elaine.
13 MR. ENGMAN: They say if you
14 can't find a replacement, you serve
15 forever.
16 MS. STEBLER: Oh, is that how it
17 goes?
18 MR. JANACEK: Now, Barbara, do I
19 continue running the meeting or does Elaine
20 run it because Harry is not here.
21 MS. RAUSCH: I do not know.
22 That's a Robert's Rules of Order question,
23 isn't it.
24 MS. STEBLER: Last year we let
25 the existing continue.
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
11
1 MR. ENGMAN: We have done both.
2 MR. JANACEK: Okay, moving right
3 along. Did everybody receive their minutes
4 of the January 9th '02 meeting? Everybody
5 received their minutes. Are there any
6 additions or deletions? I'd entertain a
7 motion to approve the minutes as written.
8 MR. ENGMAN: I move that the
9 minutes be accepted as written.
10 MS. STEBLER: I second the
11 motion.
12 MR. JANACEK: I have a motion
13 from Jim and a second from Elaine. All in
14 favor say, aye.
15 COUNCIL MEMBERS: (Unanimously),
16 aye.
17 MR. JANACEK: All opposed. (No
18 verbal response). Do we need a roll call?
19 MS. RAUSCH: Yes.
20 MR. JANACEK: Yes. Retract that.
21 MS. CAMPBELL: Elaine Stebler.
22 MS. STEBLER: Aye.
23 MS. CAMPBELL: Jim Engman.
24 MR. ENGMAN: Aye.
25 MS. CAMPBELL: Larry Brim.
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
12
1 MR. BRIM: Aye.
2 MS. CAMPBELL: Ali Fazel.
3 MR. FAZEL: Aye.
4 MS. CAMPBELL: Bill Janacek.
5 MR. JANACEK: Aye.
6 Okay, let the record show that the
7 minutes were approved by a roll call vote.
8 Item No. 6, Introduction of Proposed
9 Rule Changes for DEQ Laboratory
10 Accreditation contained in 252:300 to
11 include an additional category of
12 laboratory accreditation for Petroleum
13 Hydrocarbons Testing, update method
14 references in the Analytes for General
15 Water Quality Laboratories, and update
16 language concerning minimum requirements
17 for Quality Assurance/Quality Control
18 Plans.
19 Ms. Duncan.
20 MS. DUNCAN: Well, I'm Judy
21 Duncan, and as you could tell from the fact
22 that our last minutes were over a year and
23 a-half ago, that we've had a relatively
24 quiet time for the area as far as
25 rulemaking and our need for rules goes,
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
13
1 both in the Laboratory Certification Program
2 and the Laboratory Services Program.
3 But over the past six months or a
4 year, the staff of the Corporation
5 Commission has contacted the DEQ staff
6 about the methodologies that are commonly
7 used for total petroleum hydrocarbon testing.
8 And we met with them about different
9 methods that are available -- and you all
10 may remember, I'm sure Jim does, from the
11 earlier days of the Council. There was a
12 time when we adopted a couple of methods
13 for gasoline-range organics and diesel-
14 range organics because there really wasn't
15 an EPA method available and we needed
16 something that we could accredit
17 laboratories to.
18 Well, technology has changed and
19 times have changed and there is now another
20 method that's out there that's a better
21 method, probably, than the one that we've
22 been using. And so the Corporation
23 Commission asked -- met with us and we kind
24 of came to a common meeting of the minds
25 about what methodologies would meet their
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
14
1 needs.
2 If you want to talk in terms of
3 quality management planning, what we did
4 was determine what the quality objectives
5 needed to be for that program. And the
6 outcome of that was that the Corporation
7 Commission asked us to incorporate
8 accreditation to the Texas Method 1005, I
9 believe, into our rules.
10 So that's what we -- that's the
11 primary impetus for changing our rules.
12 And Mike Moore is here today -- if you have
13 more to add to that.
14 MR. MOORE: That sums it up. I'm
15 just here to officially request this
16 procedure for the oil and gas. I've got a
17 couple of things to say for the petroleum
18 storage tank area.
19 I have been given a couple of
20 questions. They want to know if by going
21 to this method, if the 8021 method and the
22 8015 will still be available?
23 MS. DUNCAN: Yes, they will.
24 This is just an addition to the methods we
25 accredit to not -- we didn't delete the old
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
15
1 ones. And, basically, what we did in the
2 course of making this change -- one of the
3 things that we have heard from our
4 customers of the Laboratory Accredidation
5 Program -- there are a number of labs that
6 only do work for underground storage tanks
7 program or do work primarily for the
8 Corporation Commission. And as a
9 convenience to them, what we have done is
10 proposed a separate category for testing
11 for that program and grouped those things
12 together.
13 And in the proposed rule you'll find
14 that, on the very last page in Appendix D.
15 Analytes for Petroleum Hydrocarbon Testing
16 and it includes TPH, by TNRCC Method 1005,
17 EPA Method 8021B, Oklahoma GRO Method and
18 Flash Point Testing, as well as, MTBE.
19 That's really a matter of
20 convenience for the regulated public to put
21 that that way. It makes it a little bit
22 easier for them to determine what they --
23 to apply for one category rather than
24 having to apply for multiple categories
25 under our Laboratory Accreditation rules.
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
16
1 Now subsequent to this happening, I
2 also have a letter that I'll introduce into
3 the record from our -- the Director of the
4 Land Protection Division of DEQ and they've
5 asked us to also include the TNRCC Method
6 10006 which is a companion method to 10005,
7 it looks at a little bit different aspect
8 of total petroleum hydrocarbons. And so
9 when we actually propose the rule, we will
10 add that to this total petroleum
11 hydrocarbon category.
12 So that's the main reason for making
13 this change. It allows us and our sister
14 agency -- the Corporation Commission has
15 always required that data submitted to them
16 be from an accredited lab, and this allows
17 us to better meet their needs through our
18 Laboratory Accreditation Program.
19 There's a second topic that we've
20 got for rule change, but why don't we,
21 while we're still on this topic, see if we
22 can answer any questions from the audience
23 about --
24 MR. ENGMAN: I have one question.
25 Under your program, will the laboratories
Christy A. Myers
Certified Shorthand Reporter
17
1 that submit data for the programs to be --
2 get paid back for clean ups, will they have
3 to be certified by the State? Do you
4 require a certified lab to provide that
5 data to the Corporation Commission?
6 MR. MOORE: I think that's, yes.
7 MR. ENGMAN: Is that in rules? or
8 is that --
9 MS. DUNCAN: I believe that's
10 already in the rules.
11 MR. ENGMAN: Related question.
12 How does this incorporate into mobile labs?
13 I would anticipate that some of
14 those organizations who do cleanups only,
15 potentially would be at mobile set ups.