WS 300 – TUESDAYS – ONLINE CHAT TRANSCRIPT 2-15-2005
*+**** Sheena--Malhotra entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:11pm Sheena Malhotra>hi everyone
*+**** Cyrus--Farrokh entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:12pm
Jamie Ragsdale>wow--i got booted and could not get back on
Pamela Healy>Hello
Carlos Aponte>Hola
Lisa Smith>hello
Cyrus Farrokh>!
Eden Vrieze>Hello
Sheena Malhotra>JR. Yes. I couldn't get in... I've been trying for the past few minutes
April Smith>hi
Steven Tabolsky>Strazvootzia.
*+**** Ingrid--Estrada entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:12pm
Sheena Malhotra>called CSUN. they said the server went down
Daniel Leon>good evening
Jamie Ragsdale>oh, good--it wasn't just me
Sheena Malhotra>i wonder if others are having trouble getting in
Cyrus Farrokh>i was finally able to log on after trying for over 14 min
Sheena Malhotra>CF
Sheena Malhotra>i'm glad you all made it here
Sheena Malhotra>let's wait for a few more minutes due to this situation... there might be others trying to get in
Sheena Malhotra>you can use this time to coordinate group stuff amongst yourselves if you want.
Sheena Malhotra>okay... perhaps we should get started.
Sheena Malhotra>hopefully others will manage to log on soon.
Jamie Ragsdale>it seems that when i went to watch the video last night--i was given the "color of fear"
Sheena Malhotra>Jamie... you need to ask for what you need to watch. there are different videos on hold for different classes
*+**** Cynthia--Saucedo entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:26pm
Sheena Malhotra>okay... from here on, let's start using the class rules to post...
Sheena Malhotra>and let's begin the class discussion for the day
Sheena Malhotra>on the readings
Sheena Malhotra>i want to start with the Cherrie Moraga piece
Sheena Malhotra>In this piece Moraga is making some crucial points about oppression and race.
Sheena Malhotra>The danger lies in ranking the oppressions. The danger lies in failing to acknowledge the specificity of the oppression.
Sheena Malhotra>what does she mean by that quote
Jamie Ragsdale>!
*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:29pm
Sheena Malhotra>JR
Erica Dixon>!
Sheena Malhotra>and if anyone can relate it to the video you watched, please do
Jamie Ragsdale>it's dangerous to consider one's oppression worse or better than another's . .and not to look at each in their own entity
Sheena Malhotra>ED
Heidi Hiatt>!
Jamie Ragsdale>?
Carlos Aponte>!
Erica Dixon>I belive she meant that it becomes even more of a problem once we begin comparing opression with others instead of dealing with oppression together
Sheena Malhotra>JR. Right... it's important not to get into trying to create an "oppression hierarchy"... or to get into a game of "oppression olympics"
Steven Tabolsky>!
Sheena Malhotra>HH, JR, CA
Eden Vrieze>!
Artemis Avanesian>I
Heidi Hiatt>I think that when you rank types of oppression that you pit against each other the people who really need to band together
Megan Stallard>!
Jamie Ragsdale>is it possible to relate the readings to the video "The Color of Fear"--since that's what i watched?
Carlos Aponte>There is also fear of trying to change oneself once you see yourself in the bodies of people you call different.
Sheena Malhotra>ED. Yes. I like that. She is talking about needing to look at the connections between the different kinds of oppression... EVEN AS we look at the specificity of each one
Sheena Malhotra>JR, sure.
Sheena Malhotra>EV, MS
Sheena Malhotra>ST
Pamela Healy>?
Sheena Malhotra>PH
Eden Vrieze>I think she means when people get things pressured on their oppression...
Cyrus Farrokh>!
Pamela Healy>Doesn't that go back to last week's readings when we were talking about Black women and white women and the women's movement?
Megan Stallard>I felt that the author kind of did rank oppression, she seemed very angry at her whiteness and on pg 32 par 3 she seperates women of color and white women
Lisa Smith>!
Artemis Avanesian>!
Sheena Malhotra>CA. I want to make sure I understand you correctly... could you expand on that... it sounds like a very interesting take on it
Sheena Malhotra>PH. Yes
Jamie Ragsdale>in the film . . the men while talking discover that they often see people of darker or lighter skin as having it easier or harder in the "white world"--invariably--creating a hierarchical system
Sheena Malhotra>MS. How is separating WOC and white women ranking it?
Sheena Malhotra>LS, AA
Lisa Smith>in the video, jordan was upset that the gay pride day had only a few supporters as opposed to the previous days rally. she was upset by that.
Artemis Avanesian>I think she feels guilty that she has not been sensitive to the experiences of those women who are non white...
Steven Tabolsky>And, in ranking oppression, one is judging oppressions - almost always the oppression done by others - Moraga argues that this is partly how one fails to recognize ourselves as oppressors.
Carlos Aponte>One person can called another person different. Only later the first person would realize that the person he called different is the similiar to who he is. He once "shitted" on that other person
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Megan Stallard>By making it seem like white women dont understand because they are not opressed in the same way
Sheena Malhotra>LS. Okay, yes. June Jordan was saying that we have to look at the connections here. In both these rallies... we're talking about people's civil rights. If we see the commonalities, we can support each other and be a powerful voice
Sheena Malhotra>JR
Carlos Aponte>!
Jamie Ragsdale>by judging oppression on a scale--we are essentially trivializing and denying the emotions and struggles of others
Sheena Malhotra>JR
*+**** Sandy--Archila entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:35pm
Sheena Malhotra>CA
Artemis Avanesian>!
Carlos Aponte>Women do the same thing. They judge other women, who are probably no different from them. They are afraid of admitting the truth
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Jamie Ragsdale>!
Sheena Malhotra>MS I think she is calling on white women to be more aware. I think it would be dangerous to read what she's saying as 'ranking an oppression' ... rather, I think she's naming a phenomenon she sees ocurring
Carlos Aponte>that they are not MUCH differene of each other (according to the book)
Megan Stallard>!
Sheena Malhotra>aa
Sheena Malhotra>ms
Erica Dixon>!
Artemis Avanesian>She underestands what it means to be oppressed and what it does to a person.
Sheena Malhotra>okay... just a minute, everyone
Sheena Malhotra>i don't want to leave you with the impression that what Moraga is advocating is a policy where no one can point out differences
Steven Tabolsky>!
Carlos Aponte>!
Artemis Avanesian>I
Sheena Malhotra>ST, CA
Megan Stallard>Maybe but the whole prose made me feel left out like I wasn't able to understand because I'm white...I just got a really negitive vibe from the author, like I'm to blame. I felt seperated and kind of angry that I was being thrown into a group "white people...white women"
Sheena Malhotra>ED, MS
Sheena Malhotra>AA
Erica Dixon>what i got is that everyone should understand how they have been oppressed, in doing that then when we are the oppressors we will have a better understanding
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Erica Dixon>and maybe can catch our fault by remembering how we felt
Carlos Aponte>I agree with your statement, Moraga is saying that women find it difficult to POINT out the difference between them, they are afraid to do so
Sheena Malhotra>MS. Okay... fair enough. I think Moraga was critiquing whiteness and the racism she has encountered from white folk.
Sheena Malhotra>You can choose to take that on or not.
Artemis Avanesian>May be she thinks that for the women's movement to be successful, women needed to connect with each other.
Steven Tabolsky>I think she wants us to look more inward, and how its easy for some oppressed groups to forget - like when she talks about the black middle class and white gay men becoming "unconscious" - They have been given certain windows into privelege - some due to gender, class, etc.
Sheena Malhotra>She's speaking from a space of some anger and that's part of what you're picking up.
Erica Dixon>!
Sheena Malhotra>ED
Erica Dixon>I agree with the passage ST brought up
Sheena Malhotra>ST. good point
Jamie Ragsdale>as a white women, Megan, i understand how you would feel that . .and i also understand that it is also important for Moraga and other to express their feelings of frustration in attempts to make the "white women" aware of where she is coming from.
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Megan Stallard>!
Sheena Malhotra>JR, MS
Megan Stallard>JR maybe but she still made me feel discriminated agaist, she pointed too many fingers
Madlena Yagubyan>!
Sheena Malhotra>MY
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Jamie Ragsdale>as women we have many similarities--and we need to build on those . . but we also need to hear and except other people's cultural differences--including the ones that we don't necessarily want to hear
Artemis Avanesian>!
Jamie Ragsdale>!
*+**** Sandy--Archila entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:44pm
Sheena Malhotra>MS. I think you'll find that there is a lot of anger in some of the readings you will encounter. But I ask you to read what the person is saying with the understanding that it's coming from pain
Madlena Yagubyan>something that she mentioned was that everyone has a reason to feel left out. She says she has light skin andher sister has darker skin, they're both picked on
Sheena Malhotra>AA, JR
Carlos Aponte>!
Jamie Ragsdale>i don't believe she was intentially pointing fingers . ..even though her words did have a profound effect on me . . i realize that it's important for her to share these thoughts in order for her to work through them
Sheena Malhotra>CA
Jamie Ragsdale>!
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Sheena Malhotra>JR
Artemis Avanesian>Morgan says," The real power, as you need and I well know, is collective. I can't afford to be afraid of you, nor you of me" (34) I like this code.
Erica Dixon>!
*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:45pm
Carlos Aponte>How can one try to understand the pain of the author, if one was not in her position before or similar to the position Moraga was in?
Jamie Ragsdale>i have similar thoughts towards males at times--and my writing may sound as if i'm pointing fingers--when in reality i'm trying to explain why i feel a certain way
Sheena Malhotra>ED
Heidi Hiatt>!
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Erica Dixon>Moraga wasnt just speaking about race, she pointed to sexual preference as well when she stated "that the joys of looking like a white girl werent so great" when she realized she could be beaten for her sexual preference
Erica Dixon>!
Sheena Malhotra>HH
Sheena Malhotra>JR
Heidi Hiatt>AA I really agree with you... I work for a rape crisis clinic and some of the women say that we should not have men involved, but it only weekens our strength to cut the supporting men out...
Sheena Malhotra>ED
Heidi Hiatt>but the men need to be sensitive to certain issues...
Pamela Healy> !
Steven Tabolsky>!
Artemis Avanesian>!
Jamie Ragsdale>Erica: and that was a pivotal point in her thinking--and gave more clarity to the injustices felt---and i think what she was trying to say, at least in part--is that you don't truly understand until you live it (although that wasn't expressly said)
Erica Dixon>i just think it goes deeper than race, everyday someone is taking on the roles of the dominant and the subordinate
Sheena Malhotra>CA... I think perhaps one could try to be open to the understanding that one's experience of the world may not be what others are experiencing
Sheena Malhotra>PH, ST
Pamela Healy>I agree with Erica. It isn't all about race for Moraga. I believe a large portion of her pain is due to the oppression she feels because of her sexual preference, not just her Hispanic background.
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Megan Stallard>!
Sheena Malhotra>PH. Yes. and that's partially where she's trying to show the interconnectedness of the struggles
Sheena Malhotra>jr, ms
Jamie Ragsdale>to expand on Pamela's post--i think her pain is mostly caused by confusion and guilt over having to choose one identity over another
Artemis Avanesian>!
Cyrus Farrokh>!
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Megan Stallard>I think a lot of her anger comes from her own self loathing and she feels the need to be angry at something else so as to not admit that she's mad at herslef for letting society influence her self worth so much.
Sheena Malhotra>JR. Yes. And that totally relates to some of what the women were saying in "A Place of Rage" ... those times, when they were being asked to choose between the feminist movement and the black civil rights struggle
Sheena Malhotra>AA
April Smith>!
Sheena Malhotra>CF
Sheena Malhotra>AS
April Smith>I think Moraga is also upset because she strayed away from her Hispanic culture - she felt this was some of her mothers beuty, but she brought up to only speak english, etc
Jamie Ragsdale>!
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Cyrus Farrokh>Her anger has been built up due resistance for so many years and as she says she is "with a foot in both worlds."
Steven Tabolsky>It is interesting to me to hear some of the reactions to this piece, because to me Moraga is really speaking to women more than men - BUT as a man - its interesting to get what she is saying. When she talks about needing a "new language" - this is an intimate moment in her writing between women I think.
April Smith>she is basically not truly being who she is - and she becomes aware of this when she expresses her sexuality
Sheena Malhotra>MS. I think she does talk a little bit about how we "internalize our own oppression"... but I feel like you're being rather dismissive of the reality of her experience....
Sheena Malhotra>sounds too much like "blaming the victim"
Artemis Avanesian> Morgan also was feeling she was better off than her mother because she was fair-skinned and educated.
Sheena Malhotra>jr
Jamie Ragsdale>which leads me to the question: how do we deal with the transitions between our culture, gender, sexual identies, etc . . .how do we choose? and why should we have to?
Erica Dixon>!
Sheena Malhotra>AA. Yes. Meaning... that is the message she was getting from society and her family
Sheena Malhotra>ED
Sheena Malhotra>JR. I don't think we should have to choose.
Artemis Avanesian>!
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Lisa Smith>!
Cyrus Farrokh>?
Sheena Malhotra>AA, JR, LS
Erica Dixon>I saw where moraga finally realized that she had a voice
Sheena Malhotra>CF
Sheena Malhotra>ED, yes
Lisa Smith>I think this woman is definitely coming from a place of rage - she has problems with every one of her identities
Sheena Malhotra>?How have I internalized my own oppression? How have I oppressed?? ? p.31
Jamie Ragsdale>i don't think we should, either . . but the reality is that so many people do . . .how do we change this?
Sheena Malhotra>i want to bring in that quote for discussion as well
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Cyrus Farrokh>is her anger from years of being torn between two different worlds and she is torn because she is angered by not having been outspoken enough.
Artemis Avanesian>Then, Morgan discovers she is a lesbian and feels a profound connection with her mother because being lesbian means the same as beeing poor and oppressed.
Sheena Malhotra>JR. I think by claiming all of who we are whenever we can. Or maybe by flowing between different aspects of who we are if that's more comfortable to us
Sheena Malhotra>JR
Jamie Ragsdale>that phrase is a bit scary--because i fear it can be interpreted as people "making" or "causing" their own oppression--which i don't think is the case
Erica Dixon>?
Pamela Healy>!
Sheena Malhotra>CF. once again... it's not about whether "she was outspoken enough"... it's more about why the two worlds set her up to be torn apart. she's actually looking at more of a systemic thing
Sheena Malhotra>ED, PH
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Megan Stallard>?
Pamela Healy>I think sometimes, thought, people do cause their own oppression by not allowing themselves to be who they want to be or do things they want to do. For Moraga, she causes her own oppression by not allowing herself to be vocal enough on what she believes in. .
*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 20056:58pm
Jamie Ragsdale>!
Erica Dixon>I thought the quote was referring to what we discussed previously, how we all take a role of being the one that is or have been oppressed at one point in or lives and how that has been embedded in our thinking ,actions
Erica Dixon>and how we have been the ones that have taken on that dominant role?
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Sheena Malhotra>LS. I think she is a profound writer... and yes, she might have anger at the injustice and inequalities in our society ... based on her experience. But I think she has a lot of insights to offer us ... and I'm a little taken by just how uncomfortable her 'rage' is making people feel.