This is a draft transcript which has been prepared from text typed in real-time for the purposes of communication support. It is not for further circulation and has no legal standing.
ILF Scotland
Engagement Event at Easterbrook Hall, Dumfries
Monday 20 June 2016
Afternoon Session
Group Discussion Two, New Fund Criteria Options.
HARVEY: Good afternoon. I hope everyone had lunch. It's always a bit of a challenge, I'm sure, you're all familiar with that, we're going to move into this afternoon's session.
Just for note, there is other things coming up through this dialogue that may not naturally fit in some of the workshops we're doing. Firstly, there is from my extremely, good graphic art on the things there. A car, I took colours from colleagues today! Car park poster, there, after this session, we're going to do a bit of collective feedback comments, and we might draw some of the other points out. Lastly, we're going to be putting the full documentation online if people, after today, want to give more information or contribute more we'll be doing that through an online forum or drop us an email or pick up the phone. Whatever works for you.
I'm going to hand over to colleagues again who are going to take you through this afternoon's session. There is sweets on the table, coffee up there. So, the timings for this afternoon, people okay to take 40 minutes for this next session and then we'll come back and do some collective feedback if we need a few extra minutes at any point that's fine, we're trying to get you away for 2.30 or 14. 30 for those with a military mind!
TABLE ONE DISCUSSION
PAUL: Good afternoon everybody, Phillip is new to the group.
PHILLIP: I'm an assessor, I go about, Edinburgh, Lothians, Fife, Scottish Borders.
GILLIAN: Do we have an assessor in this area?
LESLEY: Is there much take-up on ILF in this region?
GILLIAN: I don't know, of anyone in ILF.
LESLEY: My sister’s in Ayrshire. I don't know if it's promoted more there, we hardly ever hear of this down here.
PETER ROSS: One of our directors is ILF, she's confined to a wheelchair, she was a doctor so would probably know.
LESLEY: Was that Dr Anne? We all know her.
PAUL: So the format to this workshop is identical to one this morning, present an idea, expand on the idea and get some more context for the back ground and then I have some questions to get through, one of the things you mentioned this morning was about not being prescriptive, we were looking at life events, saying we need to be bigger than that this thinking is for a one off tranche. So, something or that could be anything or one activity or type of service and think something you would get a bigger lump sum as a one off? For something. So some of the ideas would be equipment? Adaptsadaptations, technology, home equipment, emergency care, some of you mentioned this morning, short breaks, respite. Alternative therapies, temporary.
LESLEY: For the carer or beauticians!
PAUL: Possibly, that's one of the things we're going to discuss if there's one off grant what should or could it be for. Additional transportation costs, telecare.
LESLEY: Not provided by the local authority.
PAUL: Household appliances, mainstream or specially adapted.
LESLEY: Specially adapted I'm thinking.
PETER ROSS: These are things suggested by various, people at various points in time.
PAUL: Support for business startup.
LESLEY: This is the one I'm interested in.
PAUL: Or additional funding support during hospital admission.
GILLIAN: There would be that additional support for hospital visit for funding visitors, that's limited.
PETER ROSS: It's the rural dimension.
LESLEY: For a lot of, transport things or transporting I think people are more and more getting told that's what your DLA mobility support you need to spend it on that, so, if it was something transportation wise, I tell you what, I think would fit into that I don't know if it would fit into that, say my daughter gets support from support workers say I allowed my car to be accessed it would need to be insured for several different people, something like that? Possibly, I don't know how much that to say costs and I have not looked into it.
GILLIAN: It's what I've often thought, when they said, we can't get the pool car. So the person would, benefit.
LESLEY: Like an open ended insurance or something. One thing that sprung to my mind when you're talking about the short breaks a couple of years ago, my son went to Australia for a year, three reasons, I couldn't, go, if I did have the money I couldn't leave my daughter for a fortnight and she would not have she would not have coped with the flights or being away from home that length of time and my concern is in the future he does want to travel again and I would love to have that opportunity if I thought I could go away for say two weeks and I knew support would be put in place which I don't think the Council would cover for that whole period of time.
GILLIAN: SelfDirected Support is limited.
LESLEY: I would save up the money she would lose out on other things.
PETER: Why, do you not get respite funded through your local authority?
LESLEY: There is no respite there is no spaces available, if I need respite, she goes away for the weekend or we go away for the weekend but it's built this into our SDS which is fine, financially.
GILLIAN: Which I have for one son the other is a block booking.
PETER: That would be valuable for you for additional receipts respite.
GILLIAN: It's about that addition that when you have a need as a carer that you're using that the person you care for's budget to do something for you and there is no extra funding, ideally we would have, our own budget, during the holidays, my daughter has to get the support so I can get the work.
PETER: That is Scottish Government strategy for supporting carers.
GILLIAN: Carers, have their own budget but that hasn't happened.
PETER ROSS: One thing added to that I would like to see some sort of support for people moving into employment supported employment. At the moment, once again, trustee of a charity, getting young people into some sort of employment by building a social enterprise which is not easy it's clunky dealing with social work and school, it's something, start that process.
GILLIAN: Even to do a work experience for a young person, school don't have the resources to put in the onetoone support that might be needed for that person to experience it something like that could be worthwhile.
LESLEY: I was lucky Darcy did get to do that.
PETER ROSS: I was working I was a works manager we always employed people with disability I'm used to it the benefits to these individuals, there is one of them still in Stranraer, it was tremendous, really really useful.
PAUL: You said moving into employment what about when they're in employment.
PETER ROSS: Same thing, they the employment sphere.
PAUL: Sustaining.
PETER ROSS: Sustaining or it's not a huge amount, I don't think, again it's a psychological boost.
LESLEY: Absolutely. Can I ask?
PHILLIP: How does Access to Work fit in?
LESLEY: I was told supported employment, I remember thinking when she leaves school could look at something like that, they changed it I was told they only support people into employment who have a chance of getting a job.
GILLIAN: Paid employment, ten years ago, Chris got supported into a voluntary workplace it was excellent service for that.
PHILLIP: Access to Work is restricted for the job.
PETER ROSS: What I'm talking about is supporting, employment, enablement.
GILLIAN: Voluntary position.
PHILLIP: At the moment, some people use ILF funding to have PAs, to drive them to work, perhaps support them at work.
PETER: What you're talking about is interesting. So, something's happening in recent years as part of reduction in local services is that supported employment services, supported employment projects used to be run by local authorities or by voluntary organisations have gone. By and large have gone and they did have some capacity at some point in time to support people into voluntary and parttime work and the only employability support now, as far as I can see now, comes through the DWP, work programme, sort of.
GILLIAN: We've been down that, route.
PETER: There is an interesting suggestion an appropriate use of ILF funding to support people for whom the work programme is not appropriate for them, so for parttime or voluntary employment there might be a legitimate use of ILF.
GILLIAN: There is a lot of youngsters capable of doing something in support with voluntary a limited number of hours that are missing out on getting that opportunity.
PETER: As somebody mentioned work experience, so, lots of young people, forgive me if it's patronising or you disagree with me, my experience of young people with learning disabilities have not had sufficient exposure to the world of work have any understanding of what it is, what they might be able to do, schools, even special needs schools aren't really terribly good at giving young people with disabilities that experience, it's probably worse now.
LESLEY: Even if they do it was only for a short period of time my daughter was supported to go to Loch Arthur a community place outside Dumfries, it was only a year, six months her support for learning assistants went with her, she worked in the baking it was fantastic I then went out to meet with the guy who runs that part of the project it's like a.
PETER ROSS: Camphill Community.
LESLEY: I thought this was a fantastic opportunity to continue, I provide the support through SDS, no they couldn't allow it to continue, if there was some sort of, I can't remember the reasons they were taking someone else on from the school it was, here's a wee shot at this, it's like dangling the card and then taking it away.
PETER ROSS: DG Voice had a conference here about employability, DWP were great, the job centre, but, they were all keen, all wonderful, but in actual fact nothing happened, it's too complicated.
LESLEY: It is difficult for people who run businesses it's almost like you need to give them finance incentive to take them on, I would say I'm going to pay you for my daughter to come here, each week.
PHILLIP: This particular thing was started by ARC, staff, ex staff it's set up as a charitable business but the chunkiness of getting it through social work and the time it takes, the wage bill doesn't go away. You know you can get grants for so long but it's not sustainable in the very longterm.
PAUL: Ask a question that picks upon a phrase you just used, dangling the carrot and taking it away, if somebody can get a one off grant, should they have the expectation, I can get a grant for this but it's not there again.
LESLEY: That's why you have to be careful about grants.
PAUL: Here's a one off grant could they maybe come back and get another grant.
LESLEY: For people with disabilities, sometimes we short breaks, some of the short breaks, funding where I work, if this is something, say it's journey what's going to happen after that year I think this person get their gym membership for a year, get fit at the end of the year, they have no way of maintaining that, that's the same for a lot of different things you get a grant for this, when it runs out it stops.
GILLIAN: Maybe, nobody, seen supported into that place for my boys, walking through the door is a particularly difficult thing, say it was a three month grant to do voluntary work, so somewhere you know they could cope on their own, I can't think where that would be, depends, individually, about individuals and their needs and outcome maybe you wouldn't be doing too much giving money to folk, people who aren't going to do it longterm on their own but might be used to those that could sustain it themselves but can't, walk through that.
PETER: The way to do that is I wouldn't think so much about paying the gym membership I would think about it as providing additional support to allow the person who bought their own gym membership to learn how to use the gym, make friends in the gym, become familiar with how it works, routine, equipment, staff.
LESLEY: That's what SDS does.
PETER: There is going to be overlap if SDS are prepared to fund it in Dumfries and Galloway great.
GILLIAN: I have been in SDS, four years and coming three years for the two boys it's possibly different from those just starting out on the journey now, you're kind of same Lesley?
LESLEY: Yes, yes.
GILLIAN: It's silly now the amount of hours, more restrictive, they won't change us because we're on it.
LESLEY: I'm curious about the business startup, what kind of business.
PAUL: No idea.
PETER: These are as part of the consultation these are things the members of the public have put in, we don't have all the back ground of what somebody's thinking.
PETER ROSS: One of the things is transport, allowing disabled people with their disabled cars to run a disabled taxi service.
GILLIAN: I was reading about that, recently, Driving Miss Daisy, it's called. A franchise. I'll been reading up on business startup ideas, it was a franchise, called driving Miss Daisy. What a wonderful service for people in an isolated situation that feel vulnerable going out and about on their own, having this personal service. Maybe seeing you into hospital for an appointment. Not necessarily support but, there is nothing like that, I wonder if it.
PETER: You hear that all the time. Transport is a real issue.
GILLIAN: My younger son who coups use a taxi I would need to know who the driver was, the driver would need to know him, Chris is limited as well, perhaps a business like that.
PETER ROSS: The taxi and Stranraer set up a wheelchair accessible taxi with a business, but it didn't survive because the market's too small.
LESLEY: I don't know if there is one in Dumfries. It.
PETER ROSS: The taxi people wouldn't do it.
PAUL: Why wouldn't the person use the taxi?
GILLIAN: I would need to know the taxi driver was aware of his ability, when you stop outside the, place, you don't let, Steven, he would open the door and take off and get out.
PAUL: We have seen something recently, the support provider has a picture of the person on the individual's tablet when the person comes to the door, they match the image on the tablet with the person at the door, so they are happy to open the door if your taxi driver has an app, to say, it is your taxi driver.
LESLEY: You're talking about a disability friendly taxi service, I don't have a disability and I don't think they are friendly half the time.
PAUL: Have you any ideas, about what a one off grant could be used for?
LESLEY: The reason I asked about the business startup, is we generally have people with complex needs, who would do the business, something carers get together and do on behalf of the people they support and get an ILF grant or would that not tick the box.
GILLIAN: Is it about outcome?
LESLEY: See Gillian and I said, we have this brilliant start-up venture; people with disabilities are going to access this, could we apply for the ILF fund on their behalf to do this start up I shall tell you more and more; my daughter is 20, doesn't have capacity, and I see there are lots of fantastic rights groups, etc etc but I don't see people on these groups advocating, people who don't have the capacity to make their own decisions that issue came up last week when there was an invite to something.
GILLIAN: Up to 18 you could go as a carer, and after that it was people to represent themselves, my boys, don't have capacity to and poor communication skills. I felt it was discriminated against.
LESLEY: Say Gillian and I, or a few of us got together and we all had children for example with complex needs and said: "Here's a brilliant startup", obviously they can't the run the business they don't have the capacity to do it but they could be involved in the planning and delivery and saying what they want.
PETER: What kind of business are you thinking about?
LESLEY: Yeah.
PETER: Around advocacy?
LESLEY: Not really, no that was just, a one off, because I'm concerned. They may be not represented, no that is not the business idea.
PETER ROSS: There's a business in Lanarkshire, we would tell a social worker who thought about using it for, it's a landscaping business, and his.
PETER: Clydesdale.
PETER ROSS: But what I heard, you need contracts, he took on and trained proper landscaping staff, you know, people who would work, so work alongside each other and so that, people without the capacity felt empowered by working but he actually still needs contracts.