Halite CLP Meeting 10th July 2012
Additions Café Bar, Fleetwood
Minutes
In attendanceDavid Shaw, Fleetwood Town Council [DS]
Keith Budinger, Halite [KB]
Clayton Jones , Poulton Resident [CJ]
David Evans [DE]
Lesley Middleton, Poulton & Carleton Residents Assoc. [LM ]
Graham Hargreaves, Hambleton PC [GH]
Adam Jenkinson, Hambleton PC [AJ]
Alban Cassidy, Cassidy + Ashton [Facilitator] [APC]
1.Introductions
APC introduced Keith Budinger from Halite. Keith will be available to attend all future CLP meetings if required.
2.Minutes from previous meeting
Agreed as a true record.
3.Matters arising at the meeting
DS asked whether the maintenance schedule should be increased.
KB stated that the engineers made recommendations for future maintenance. This was signed off by HSE therefore no proposals to increase schedule but could be if required.
DS referred to criticism (from general public), if Halite can not manage and monitor existing wells, how can there be confidence that Halite can manage the current proposal?
KB reassured the CLP that Halite has more information than anyone in respect of the wells and were capable of addressing concerns.
DE noted that this was a problem from start. Confusion by the general public between former brine caverns and proposed purpose built caverns for gas storage.
Public ignorance is a key factor which complicates the debate.
DS - Many people still think gas is to be stored in the old brine caverns, not the purpose built caverns.
LM - Whether old or new, but still a failure in a 3 month period. How can we be reassured that sufficient knowledge is available to monitor caverns.
KB - All caverns have been surveyed or data reviewed and a maintenance programme devised (for a 10 year period).
Plan is to puncture the air pockets and remove the brine.
GH asked what relationships in depth there are between old and new caverns.
KB - Roughly the same depth, as it is the same strata. New caverns will have higher cap.
AJ - How will gas migration be prevented. Previous leakages into river system.
KB - Old caverns can be monitored. Aware some caverns have toxic materials. Not all controlled by Halite.
Aware of cavern inter connections/mines etc.
AJ - But how can public be sure that incident won’t happen?
DE - Legacy is up to 100 years old but without Halite no one would monitor situation.
But these are not to be confused with new proposals located some distance away.
Salt is self sealing and therefore accepted to be safest way to store gas as it will prevent gas leakage.
AJ stated that it may be safest way but not the safest place. Gasometer better.
DE noted the proposal is safer than gasometers.
KB No incidents of leakage of gas from a salt cavern recorded anywhere - eg - Kansas was in the pipe not the cavern.
KB - Halite worked with WyreBC who are very concerned about management of old brinefield. HSE are satisfied with maintenance and management proposals.
AJ noted that other storage caverns are not as close to areas of population.
KB - This has been considered in detail through 45 statements of common ground, eg with UU agreeing that there is no risk of gas leaking into their network.
Natural England also - safety, risk, fear, ecology etc.
All are in the public domain.
3 more exhibitions in November 2012. Fleetwood, Poulton and Hambleton to explain all agreements that have been reached.
AJ - Safety is the main thing.
DSstated that it is not just about possibility of incident but how such an inducement is mitigated. Halite needs to acknowledge that accidents can happen and demonstrate to general public how such issues are addressed. This has not come across well.
CJ - was reassured by the Engineer’s report.
KB noted that the old caverns more of an issue than new caverns.
AJ - It is the concerns of people from the immediate local area that is most important.
Poulton and Carleton Residents Association reported in PWG leaflet. P & C RA on record to say that P & C RA are not part of any group and have not indicated their support for any publication.
GH - Is protected life of the caverns 40 years?
KB - Yes, depending on condition - could go on longer. Decommissioning plan to be in place. Will be enshrined in S106 agreement.
Can have alternative uses after but are assumed to be put out of use at end of 40 year period. Bond to put process in place if required.
CJ - Had previously asked whether Interpretation/Ecology Centre to be provided on site.
KB - Referred back to CSR including Com-Investment Trust to invest in local projects. Invited comments and suggestions.
DS - Should also present CSR proposals to Fleetwood Development Partnership.
AC - Stressed that any comments on CSR will have no bearing on position on application.
LM - Quadrilla. Concern over impact on local living conditions, eg, minor earth quakes are insurance matter, not Quadrilla. Similar concerns to storage scheme - impacts including house prices.
KB - Clearly separate issues but aware issues often confused.
No evidence of house price changes or insurance increases near gas caverns.
DS - Lots of press in respect of possible barrage.
Halite and barrage people should agree press release.
GH - What powers do security team have?
KB - No powers of arrest. The intention is to keep security on site and would be continued after consent granted.
AC - Any particular linkage/connection to Police Forces?
KB - Yes, advice taken from anti-terrorist squad.
Feedback beneficial to local area eg less fly tipping etc.
KB explained that examination process allowed a series of questions between the parties over the period.
Issue of discharge - Marine Management Organisation (MMO) and Halite over statement of common ground. Now have deemed licence for discharge.
CJ - doesn’t see a particular problem with discharge.
GH - Any reason why dock water used as unclean?
KB - Easiest access to quantity as no impact on supply, marine life, water table, flood risk, etc.
After washing, water de-brined and pumped out to sea and insolubles put down well 123.
6.Any other business
DE - Concern over MP’s positions. Seems that they have not provided justification. Need for gas storage is there. Jobs will be created.
7.Date of next meeting
The next meeting will be held in mid - late September 2012.