Committee:Personnel Management TC

Co-Chairs:Bernd Blobel, Frank Oemig

Author:Frank Oemig

HL7 Plenary Working Group Meeting – Baltimore, MD

Minutes of the Personnel Management TC Meeting

held Monday-Thursday, September 30 - October 4, 2002

1List of Attendees

Name / Institution / Email
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany
University of Magdeburg /
Frank Howard / KP /
J.R. Pelatzky / Siemens Medical Solutions H.S. /
Glen Marshall / Siemens /
Beat Heggli / HL7 Switzerland /
Dawn Bollmann / US Dept. of V.A. /
John Moehrke / GE /
Jean Spohn / Group Health Cooperative /
John Davis / VA
Gary Dickinson (part) / VA
Steve Wagner (part) / VA /
Robin Zimmerman / KP /

2Points Discussed

2.1Monday

Name / Institution / Email
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Frank Howard / KP /
J.R. Pelatzky / Siemens Medical Solutions H.S. /

First, the agenda has been approved. The last meeting minutes couldn't be approved since the majority of the attendees haven't seen the minutes.

The afternoon session has been used to resolve negative comments on v2.5 for chapter 8 and 15 and to discuss new proposals.

Proposals:

180: deferred to orders and observations (it doesn't refer to PM)

252: tabled to Wednesday to check with Joann Larson (KP)

268: tabled to Wednesday for larger auditorium (currently there are no major concerns/objections)

269: delete content of example message

Motion: delete contents of field STF-1 and PRA-1 from example message. (3-0-0)

No new input from KP and Siemens on the M02 conflict making a non-repeating segment repeating.

2.2Tuesday (j/w Security & Accountability)

Name / Institution / Email
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany
University of Magdeburg /
Glen Marshall / Siemens /
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Beat Heggli / HL7 Switzerland /
Dawn Bollmann / US Dept. of V.A. /
John Moehrke / GE /
Jean Spohn / Group Health Cooperative /
John (Mike) Davis / VA
Gary Dickinson (part) / VA
Steve Wagner (part) / VA /

Bernd Blobel gave a presentation on the Working Draft "Privilege Management and Access Control", ISO TC 215 WG4:

  • security model (on application and communication level)
  • domain model
  • policy bridging
  • authorization
  • delegation model
  • control model
  • role model

A strong discussion on the role model and terminology use led to the decision to discuss these items in detail bilateral among Bernd and Mike.

2.3Wednesday

Name / Institution / Email
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany
University of Magdeburg /
J.R. Pelatzky / Siemens Medical Solutions H.S. /
Jean Spohn / Group Health Cooperative /
Robin Zimmermann / KP /

Discussion of negative ballot comments. It can be summarized by the following statistics:

Name / Company / #voter / Neg-Mi / Neg-Mj / Comment / Status
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany / 1 / - / - / ok
Voter #6 / HL7 Canada / 1 / 1 / 3 / withdrawn (by Micheal v.C., 10/3/02)
Beat Heggli / HL7 Switzerland / 1 / - / - / ok
Bert Kabbes / HL7 NL / 1 / 2 / - / withdrawn, but #1 (by Irma Jongeneel, 10/2/02)
David Markwell / HL7 UK / 1 / - / - / General remarks on the balloting process / non-substantial
Chuck Meyer / McKesson / 1 / - / 3 / withdrawn (by Chuck Meyer, 10/3/02)
Joan Miller / Siemens / 6 / 3 / - / withdrawn (by J.R.Pelatzky, 10/2/02)
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany / 1 / - / - / ok
Ken Rubin / VA / 7 / 1 / 1+26 (to be written) / withdrawn (by D.Bollmann, 10/3/02)
Peter Scholz / HL7 Germany / 1 / 1 / 4 / withdrawn (by Frank Oemig, 10/3/02)
Mark Shafarman / Oracle / 12 / - / 6 / withdrawn (by Mark Shafarman, 10/3/02)
Total / 31

The ones submitted by Siemens could be resolved and are withdrawn by Joseph Pelatzky.

Next, it was decided to follow up with the negative comments submitted by Ken Rubin. It contains 27 line items, 26 of which corresponds to "TO BE WRITTEN". Most of the 25 sections has been described in detail, but got lost during the publication process due to PM submission from different parties. Those can be simply solved by adding them in again and respond to the voter.

2.4Thursday (j/w PA)

Name / Institution / Email
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany
University of Magdeburg /
Jean Ferraro
Irma Jongeneel / HL7 Netherlands
Jean Spohn / Group Health Coop.
Robin Zimmerman / KP /
Jeanne Greet / Siemens
Gregg Seppala / VA
Norman Doaust / Daoust & Associates
Jeff Jacobs
….

Discussion of treatment of master file content in future HL7 environments:

a) Location: It is accepted, where the material is located in the ballot right now and that PA owns it. Nevertheless, the location issues should concur with PM, i.e. PM should be consulted.

b) Person/Organization: The treatment of master files will change in the future in health administration management. PA will help/support PM in this direction, if they understand the implications in detail. Therefore, a whitepaper submitted by Bernd asap should clarify the wording/terminology as well as the usage of master file content. This paper should give a high level overview and will be submitted to MnM/CQ for decision making.

2.5Thursday

Name / Institution / Email
Frank Oemig / HL7 Germany /
Bernd Blobel / HL7 Germany
University of Magdeburg /
Dawn Bollmann / VA
J:R. Pelatzky / Siemens
Jean Spohn / Group Health Coop.
Robin Zimmerman / KP /

Dawn Bollmann withdraws all negative major comments referring to "TO BE WRITTEN", if the content is edited in again. The submitted contents got lost due to the publication process.

The typos are accepted by PM and will be edited in.

The discussion of Mark Shafarman's requests results in two major issues:

a)We need an update-mode to send notifications once a specific information has been changed. This mechanism is provided so far.

b)A "broadcast message" containing everything. Currently there is no mechanism to fulfil these needs. Instead of it PM agrees to use queries for that purpose. A query is a general mechanism which allows for requesting information as needed.

Furthermore, PM agrees to use the messages dealing with organizations as proposed.

Finally, the submitted material needs review during the next weeks.

In general, the discussion reveals difficulties using the right terminology and the differences among it:

  • registry
  • master file

Canada claims missing definitions as well. As agreed before, the missing descriptions will be edited in again. Furthermore, the DMIM as well as the CMETs will be checked against each other. Michael van Campen has agreed upon the proposed changes, i.e. to edit in the contents again, and to withdraw the negative based on it.

Peter Scholz also claims missing definitions. Furthermore, the messages concerning staff should be moved into the domain specific content section, and not be part of the master file section. This item requires harmonization with PA TC. Frank Oemig withdraws the negative on behalf of Peter Scholz.

CMET: PM has got negative comments via CMETs. Beside missing descriptions, inconsistencies between the CMET and the DMIM as well as missing RMIMs are claimed. PM has agreed to check these issues.

Bert Kabbes (Irma Jongeneel): Beside wrong (disfunctional) hyperlinks in the ballot material it appears that certain summary tables do not contain the complete set of information. This requires checking. Another issue is where to place the staff messages?

Irma would like to withdraw the negative vote, but it is unclear right now, what is meant by the first item. She will check with the issuer to find out. The rest is fine with her.

McKesson: Some structures like "part of a whole" are missing in the DMIM. The DMIM requires further additions as mentioned before. Chuck Meyer withdraw negative on behald orf Austin Kreisler.

Mark Shafarman: The missing RMIM Oracle submitted requires the following harmonization with our DMIM: Replace E_person by E_principal_list, E_organisation by E_Authority and harmonize the vocabulary (certified/credentialed/licensed). Based on that update Mark Shafarman withdraws his negative vote.

David Markwell didn't provide useful input to improve the content. His negative vote is treated as non-substantial.

Agreement with CMET task force: Establishing a priority list of CMETs from PM's point of view.

2.6Thursday (v2.5 issues/housekeeping)

The minutes of the Atlanta meeting have been approved.

Proposals:

180: chapter 4 should be deferred to orders and observations (it doesn't refer to PM)

Motion: defer it to OO TC (4-0-0)

252: active/inactive flag within STF-7

Motion: table this issue to the next WGM (4-0-0)

268: add NTE (repeating/optional) to M02 master file message

Motion: apply proposal as requested (4-0-0)

3Follow-up Items and Assignments

  • The results of the discussion will be uploaded to the PM web site.
  • Distribution of chapter 15 (v2.5) for membership ballot #1 in November.
  • Integration of sequence diagrams and state transition diagrams into the V3 ballot package.
  • Update of the V3 publication database
  • Submit a whitepaper on masterfiles to PA
  • Update the DMIM to include entry points for CMETs
  • Check for "revise" messages for person (not for role or certificate)
  • Check the pub db for interactions
  • send update proposal for M02 to editor of chapter 8 (Jim Kingsland)

4Schedules for the Next Meeting

PM TC plans two full day meetings on Monday and Wednesday and a one half day meeting on Thursday morning. At Tuesday, the joint meeting with Security will be scheduled and on Wednesday PA will host a joint meeting with PM TC.

Proposed Agenda:

  1. Reconciliation of 2.x membership ballot.
  2. Preparation of V3 ballot material (CMETs, vocabulary, ..).
  3. Discussion of the PM related items with other TCs (PA) and SIGs (Sec&Acct.): master file, role, certificates, etc.