Town of Stockton Springs
Public Hearing – Yacht Club Liquor License Public Hearing
June 2, 2016
Transcript
The meeting began at 6:00 p.m.
6:02 p.m.
Lesley Cosmano: OK, we are going to move on to the public hearing Class A Lounge Liquor License Application, James Grossman, Alexander Liversidge and Michael Labinski, doing business as Stockton Harbor Yacht Club, Inc. Do I hear a motion to go into public hearing?
Peter Curley: I make a motion to go into public hearing for the Class A Lounge Liquor License application for James Grossman, Alexander Liversidge and Michael Labinski, dba Stockton Harbor Yacht Club.
Lesley Cosmano: I second.
Sara Skolfield: I am recusing myself.
Lesley Cosmano: OK, motion has been made, I will second it. All those in favor? Let the record show that it is 2 -0 with one abstention, Sara has chosen to recuse herself. The public hearing is now open. If I could set a few guidelines to help us through this right now, first there will be an opportunity for the applicants to present any information they would like the Select Board to consider, then there will be comments that are in favor of what the applicant is and secondly, then, third, excuse me, there will be comments from those who would oppose the application. We ask that as you are called to speak you go up to the podium and state your name and your address for the record. We also ask that if you have a cell phone if you could put it on vibrate or turn it off. All right, first up then is the presentation from Mr. Grossman. I am only going by the way it is listed on here.
James Grossman: I have watched the development take place here in town and seen opposition to what Mr. Zappala did and there is still ongoing debate about some of his developments, but I have watched this yacht club building sit idle for ten years, which is a shame, but fortunately we have Sandy, who has stepped up to the plate and is willing to make a risk and trying to make the original concept of a yacht club in this town a reality. Interestingly some of his strongest supporters are the lobstermen, fishermen, people who have a great deal to be gained, having more activity on the waterfront I think the town in general has a lot to gain, having a lot of
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activity on the waterfront, including property tax burden , probably people with some resources might wish to further invest in this town, help the economy, help the businesses in town, perhaps reduce the enormous property tax burden by buying properties and moving here. So, I think the kind of liquor license we are looking for as opposed to the type of liquor license we might more easily obtain is a question of hair-splitting. I would hate to see this thing fail because of a technicality. The technicality has to do with how the lot that the yacht club building is zoned, I think it is really a non-issue, it is zoned as maritime commercial, commercial fisheries maritime activities district, am I right about that, and this is is described as an area that is suitable for functionally water-dependent uses, and this zoning is defined as a very diverse group of uses ranging from large industrial facilities that receives shipments by water, traditional commercial fishing, public shorefront parks, and I think that we don’t have any heavy shipping here, you do have a park, you do have commercial fishing, I think people involved in the park are very supportive and want to see the yacht club successful, and I think it’s the job of our town leaders to have a vision of what this town could become and you have to encourage this to succeed, and that’s all I have to say.
Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Mr. Liversidge.
Alexander Liversidge: When we set this yacht club up, we were looking at all the different aspects of it, there’s the docks, there’s the building, there’s the moorings and revenue, everybody here knows that revenues are important, so we’ve got to support a yacht club somehow, so if somebody sails into Stockton Harbor and comes to our yacht club, rents the dock for the night, a dollar a foot, walks into our facility, he cannot drink a beer unless we have this license, and the reason is because the state has always allowed clubs to operate with members and guests. The VFW is a good example. So members can come it, and it used to be they could bring guests, they would sign their guest in, but the fact of the matter was the clubs abused the guest privilege, so the state revoked it, so you can never, no longer bring a guest into a club and have them drink alcohol, so the only way for the Stockton Harbor Yacht Club to have people sail into our harbor, use our facilities and drink alcohol is to have this license. Now, don’t think I wasn’t depressed when I realized the wall we had come up against that we were going to have to surmount so that we could attract boaters into our yacht club, and into our harbor, to go buy stuff at Libby’s, and Hannaford’s, and Tozier’s, and the greatest food in Maine, up on Route 1. People have to have a reason to come here, I have two good friends who are cruisers from New Hampshire, and I brought them up and showed them my yacht club last fall, and you know what they said? What is to come here for? If you don’t offer, I don’t know how many of you are boaters and how many of you have ever been caught up in storms, I was off Atlantic City, I had to call the Coast Guard, we were lucky to get in alive. After you do that you really need a drink,
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and it might sound funny but it’s just a fact, people who go out on the ocean go through a lot of stuff, and when they come in, having an alcoholic beverage is very typical if you are a cruiser like me. We are not trying to shove something big down the town’s throat, all we are trying to do is make it so that we have A, a way to raise revenue for the club, B to provide cruisers come in the ability to have a beer, and don’t forget all the social members in the condominiums who are going to have guests coming from the summer, they come out of the pool and they say ‘hey, do you want to go to the yacht club?’ ‘And do what?’ ‘Have a drink’. I don’t know if you all got that sheet that I tried to leave at the town hall today, I have been going over all the ordinances and the BIC agreement, which I am sure you guys are familiar with, and also with the Harbor Ordinance, and I found multiple places where the town is allowing the Harbor Ordinance to be violated, and I finally found something in the Shoreland Zoning that I felt made sense, because what it said was that the town could take these commercial maritime districts and adjust them as needed for the specific town, so maybe if you had commercial fishermen who could not get to the town water because you had a yacht club taking it up, maybe you would have a discussion with the yacht club, that would be one thing, but we already have commercial fishermen with full access to the water. I asked Skeet Wyman at the first harbor meeting since I bought these two properties down there whether or not he would want to see a real commercial fishing operation as I’ve seen in Kennebunk, Kennebunkport, Wells, Cape Porpoise, they all have big operations, he said the fishermen were very happy with what they have here. So you’ve got your commercial fishing, you’ve got your maritime zone, you’ve got your waterfront park, you’ve got access for the public, we are living up to the agreement of keeping it a maritime zone. All we’re asking is for one small piece. My problem is that we have to stand up here and make a big deal out of something to get a small piece, to just keep the yacht club moving forward, and that’s all we’re asking for, we’re not asking for, we’re not asking for a big deal. I was not very happy when Marnie, the town manager, mentioned the word honkey-tonk when she was talking about our application, but the fact of the matter is it says that in the state law our yacht club is no honkey-tonk, we’re not asking the public to come down there, the public will not be allowed, it is just for the members, it is so we can provide the members a service, have some income, and I personally believe that that paper I gave you gives you the latitude to allow that small exception, if you want to call it that.
Charlie Costello: May I speak? No? It’s not allowed?
Lesley Cosmano: Not yet. We do have another person, Michael Labinski.
Alexander Liversidge: He found out yesterday, we were told that we were going to be declined tonight, and so he had a very important job, he has a bar that he works at, this is their opening
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night, he was going to be here, but when they found, he found out that we were going to be declined, he decided to go to work, so he is not here.
Lesley Cosmano: All right. Comments in favor of the application, and again if you have a copy of the agenda, at the bottom it says comments or points of view referencing individuals in a negative manner are not accepted, it also says that we have the right to limit you to two minutes of speaking up at the podium, and we ask that you don’t repeat comments that have already been said, so that we can keep things moving forward. All right, so, was there anyone in the audience who would like to speak in favor of the application?
Charlie Costello: Yes, ma’am.
Lesley Cosmano: OK, if you would please, sir, go up and identify yourself.
Charlie Costello: Yes, I will. I’m Charlie Costello, 51 Harbor View, I was formally the director of the yacht club, I am not on the board anymore because I had too many obligations. For full respect I don’t represent The Village at Stockton Harbor but I am the president up there, and if anybody would have a problem with the yacht club, it would be The Village at Stockton Harbor, and I don’t think we really do, I see some villagers here. Sandy’s worked hard, he has put a lot of money into this, he really did. The town didn’t, the town didn’t buy it, he did, with his own cash. I don’t see a problem. If there is a problem, the village will make sure that problem is corrected before the town does. I don’t, I don’t see a problem with this application. When I was, when I was a director on the board, I was the guy that dealt with the liquor commission up with the state of Maine. I didn’t realize how easy it was to deal with the state of Maine but not the town of Stockton, I guess. The state of Maine told us everything we needed to know, and what we needed to know is we needed these certain types of permits because as Sandy stated, if we get a transient vessel in and Dave’s taking care of that vessel, they can’t come have a drink legally unless we get this proper license, and I told the commissioner we don’t want to violate the law, so, ironically, all these folks are here tonight because they don’t want to violate the law, they want to work within it. It took me a long time to get back to New England, a bullet hole and everything else, give these guys a chance, will ya, that’s all I’m saying. And, by the way, the page he gave you, Page 14, states he can have a liquor license. He can’t put a house down there but he can do anything else, check the table, I’ve got the law, I had attorneys look at it all day long, and I paid for the attorney, he didn’t. By your grace, ma’am, by your grace.
Lesley Cosmano: Anyone else in favor. Jillian.
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Jillian Liversidge: First of all I get really nervous, I’m just going to throw that out there. I don’t like speaking in public unless I’m in front of a group of middle schoolers or my girls. I’m Jillian Liverside, I’m Alexander’s wife, and we’re currently living at 50 Acreage Drive. I just want to say I was down at the yacht club this past weekend because we are starting to see a pickup in activity, and I spoke with some potential members, and two parties, two separate parties indicated that they would not be joining the yacht club if we did not get our liquor license, that was just two people on any given day, I had about five parties drop by that day, and I really feel like we are going to be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don’t move forward with this. This is important to some people, they want a place to hang out because, that’s the whole purpose is to have a club so that you can hang out and talk about boating and how it feels to go, and I really feel like this is a key factor in our success, we need to make this work, we want it to be a hub, we want it to be a community, we want to be part of what’s going on on the waterfront, we see such great enthusiasm and potential. We just want to see this work, so please consider this a yay vote. Thank you.
Lesley Cosmano: Thank you for your comments. Gay.
Gay Dion: My name is Gay Dion, I live at The Village at Stockton Harbor, and I’m very nervous, too. I only want to bring up the fact that many years ago there was a big change in Stockton Springs, especially in Sandy Point. It was at French’s Point, The Retreat at French’s Point, they went through grueling efforts to make a change in that facility, and they wanted a liquor license, they wanted to make changes and have a commercial facility there, very different than what it was, and it had been idle for a long time. It was really hard, but it happened, they got through, and it is working out really well, and they have, they have had nothing but success with that, and basically that is all I wanted to say. I know that change is really hard for this community and I think that it’s necessary, and I think the yacht club is an incredible effort to make this more of a community on the harbor, I think it is a great idea, I feel very positive about it, I am hoping to, we are members, my husband and I, we joined, I think we were like number one joiners. And not that that makes any difference, but we want to go down there, we want to have a drink, we want to bring our friends down and have a drink, and people are respectful of the commercial issues that are going on down there, I, I, I know that my two minutes are up, but that’s basically what I’d like to say, I’d like to promote it as much as possible.