I Should Be Finished in About 2 Hours

I should be finished in about 2 hours.

Present:

Ms Sarah Skelton (SS) Plane Training (Chair)

Mrs Janice Fisher JA) CAA

Ms Karen Bath (KB) CTC

Ms Jacqui Gough (JGo) BA

Mr Martin Evans (ME) Global Air Training

Mr Rick Heybroek (RH) Loftwork

Mr Paolo Patitucci (PP)

Mr Malcolm Rusby (MR) TAG Aviation

Ms Joanne Green (JGr) JG Aviation Cnslt.

Apologies:

Mr Rob Calvert (RC) CAA

Mr Carey Edwards (CE) LMQ

Ms Paula Robinson (PR) ITS

Ms Heather Derbyshire (HD) Easyjet

Ms Helen Reynolds (HR) Independent Member

Ms Elizabeth Albone (EA) Easyjet

Mrs Lyn Spicer (LS) Independent Member (Secretary)

Mrs Sue Adair (SA) CAA

Ms Marie Russell (MR) Eastern Airways

Mr Dave Turner (DT) Monarch

Ms Donna Gregori (DG) BA

1. Apologies received as above, SS welcomed returning members and three new members: Joanne Green, Malcolm Rusby and Paolo Patitucci.

2. Minutes of Last Meeting

Not reviewed in detail since the previous meeting was primarily about the conference rehearsal, presentations and workshop, and the Helios project.

3. Conference Feedback

3.1 Minutes of the Conference have been circulated and posted on the HFG website:

(http://www.raes-hfg.com/reports/29jan09-FutureRoleofCabinCrew/29jan09-FutureRole.php

3.2  Consensus on Conference

SS reported that the general opinion was that the conference had been very successful, with solid participation on the day up to the final available minute.

3.2.1  Feedback sheets

Feedback very positive about Facilitation and reported that and the skills lists as “Most Useful”. There were no reports of “not useful”. Future topic requests included More Facilitation and First Aid

SS advised there was a demand for integration of CRM theory into practice. Jgo and JGr reported that EasyJet and BA do integrated CRM training.

3.2.2  Workshop Tasks

SS said workshop tasks were well received. Discussion of point that conference aim is to raise awareness, not to deliver training. ME asked about ratio of managers to instructors – JF said it had been a good cross-section and reasonable mix, KB agreeing. JF also felt the workshops were particularly effective, advised keeping workshops simple. SS said effectiveness was much to do with the simple briefing and briefing sheets.

3.2.3  DVD

JGr noted problems with DVDs. RH offered streaming video facility on HFG website.

3.2.4  Lessons for Future

SS asked for items which should be different in future. JGr said attention to point of view and terminology for HPL vs SEP constituency. KB suggested Situation Awareness as terminology which is unused but always taught.

4. Future Conferences

4.1  Steve Jarvis (HFG Main Committee) has spoken to Helios F16 pilot who is doing an MSc thesis on CC knowledge of FD instrumentation. He poses the hypothetical question “Could a normal CC member make a MayDay call, disengage the Autopilot and initiate a descent?” Recommended as a possible speaker.

4.2  Other Speakers

ME suggested a JAR FCL viewpoint on CC on flight deck. SS said some operators would allow CC to work FD in case of dual pilot incapacitation. ME asked how far CC training for this contingency would go.

KB reported Qinetiq interest in whether CC should be trained as profilers.

SS reported DT on (Monarch) training around Helios incident including a captain who is an MD and has agreed in principle to talk about hypoxia. (HF tie-in with Aviation Medicine Group).

Action SS to provide speakers on First Aid, particularly wrt A380 medical issues. JG noted coordination issues with one crew on two decks.

SS proposed to carry forward with comments based on skills lists then conclude with Helios findings about lack of pressurization failure training. Responding to C Edwards request for a conference by end 2009, discussion about timing issues and conclusion that a better option would be February 2010.

JF suggested talking to HD because they did a mockup involving a medical emergency and FD interaction which was very well received. Also noted that it is possible to do classroom LOFT

Action: SS to circulate outline for conf., and to ask Heather about the mockup.

Since there is a CRM Advisory Panel conference in Q1 2010 the consensus was that it would be a good idea to run the two back to back, if possible.

Action: JF to propose to Rob and Carey.

5. Introduction of New Members

SS prefaced the introductions by noting that an objective of the CCSG is to maintain a good cross-section from industry across the board. Members are (exxcept for corresponding members) expected to participate actively including attendance at at least 50% of CCSG meetings.

Joanne Green (JGr) described a wide range of operational and training experience from 1992, currently MD of own business handling course design incl. Initial, Recurrent, Facilitation, SEP and First Aid. Believes that CRM originally seen as impractical, has largely overcome this obstacle but still needs to demonstrate relevance, e.g. rotary distinct from fixed-wing MCC.

Malcolm Rusby (MR) described a varied career background from avionics engineering, ATPL, airport fireman, air ambulance, corporate pilot, safety consultant, SMS trainer, and currently TAG has tasked him with setting up their AOC safety system. Experience includes 23 years on fixed and rotor wing, test pilot, stunt flying, rescue training, and CRMI among others.

Paolo Patitucci (PP)

With early PPL hours as far back as 1977, Paolo later joined Cypress Airways as an assistant flight instructor, flight instructor, then inflight services instructor. He took an Air Safety Management certificate in 2004. His aims include promoting CRM as ‘company resource management’ to other departments at Cypress Airways.

SS Expressed the thanks of the CCSG to the new members and noted two additional member candidates with substantial experience, Danny Barraclough (Thomas Cook) and Richard Coward (Virgin Atlantic). The new and prospective members address a lack of pilots and overseas operators on committee. JF and SS noted that there was a significant amount of work both at quarterly meetings and by email correspondence etc. which candidates should consider.

6. Helios and CRM-SG

SS distributes Minutes from the last CRM-SG meeting including a background to the Helios project. CCSG reviewed the CRM-SG Minutes including VLJ conference feedback and the forthcoming Rail and Aviation conference CRM conference.

The Video Shop project was discussed and KB pointed out that buying a clip of anything from BBC costs from £250. RH and JF said the holding location had been confirmed as CAA but the project currently lacked a champion.

Deadly Distractions

SS discussed the letter by Capt. Roger Benison to Flight International titled “Deadly Distractions” which warns that job security is itsef a serious HF issue and during economic downturn budgets are under threat and merging operational cultures can also create unexpected risks.

The CCSG consensus was that the article and covering letter required rewriting.

Action RH to rewrite and feed back to Nicole Svatek and SS for further circulation.

ME and KB suggested that there were a number of other publications the article could be submitted to including Flight Training News, Airline Business, Human Factors Journal, Focus on Flight Safety and of course Aerospace.

Helios Report

Several CCSG members had met previously to consider the Helios accident report and draw conclusions re lessons learned and outstanding issues. They developed and circulated a questionnaire and collated the responses. JF had shown a DVD dealing with decompression and Hypoxia training.

SS said it would be a benefit to train for hypoxia but it raised practical problems, e.g. from decompression. There also appeared from the survey responses to be a lack of appreciation of differences between decompression and pressurization failure, the symptoms of which are quite different. JF agreed that some ops may not cover this, and also pointed to implications for FD door operation and code access, which are relatively infrequently trained although much more common in practice. SS asked how often FD door initial training was refreshed, if ever. JF proposed EASA might consider amending the rules based on a statement from CCSG reporting lack of consistency in door operation practice. An amendment to FD door policy would be within the current amendment deadline for MPA 2009-02.

Action: JF to circulate amending proposal to CCSG.

PP pointed out that it typically takes 30 seconds to open an FD door, which is a long time in a hypoxia situation. JGo suggested a drill including mask usage. JGr noted that symptoms vary from person to person. Other members pointed to the availability of related material from AerLingus and Sabre Airlines.

Members agreed that JAR Ops 14 needed rewording and there were conflicts with FCL. SS pointed to large gaps which, from questionnaire feedback, needed to be addressed.

Looking at CRM-SG’s question about short or long videos, members discussed examples at length. PP cited an example of a flight where the FD needed to be reminded to use masks instead of focussing solely on technical problem-solving. KB proposed that CCSG further develop its ideas and not restrict to Helios.

Action: ALL, to jot some thoughts down about door operation, failure to pressurize/depressurize and training aids.

Draft Implementing rules

JF reported that content had been moved apparently to anticipate CC licensing by modelling it on pilot licensing, with parts in Personnel Licensing focussing on type-specific training and others in OR Ops dealing with operators’ type training. The CRM table has been divided between part CC general and largely duplicated in Part OR. All of it is by Acceptable Means of Compliance (AMC). Operators can deviate from the AMC but only by submitting a written application to EASA.

Nothing has been removed from CRM training despite the redeployment. There is public access and some right to respond as UK CAA.

JF said Standards Doc 29 was expected shortly.

7. AOB

On Future Dates, ME suggested that Fridays were generay better than Thursdays. Action SS.

Future Dates (subject to revision):

July 16 2009

Oct 15 “

5

HFCCSG Meeting 11 – 16 April 2009