November 2008doc.: IEEE 802.11-08/1335r0

IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs

Task Group U Meeting Minutes for
November 2008 Interim Meeting
Dallas, Texas, United States
Date: 2008-11-10
Author(s):
Name / Affiliation / Address / Phone / email
Matthew Gast / Trapeze Networks / 5753 W. Las Positas Blvd
Pleasanton, CA94588USA / +1 925 474 2273 /

Monday, November 10, 2008, 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM

Acting chair: Dave Stephenson

Recording secretary: Matthew Gast

Call to order and agenda

Meeting called to order on Monday, November 10, 2008 by Dave Stephenson at 4:02 pm Central Standard Time (CST). The chair then reviewed the following topics from the agenda:

  • The agenda is document number 11-08/1227r1
  • The chair displayed the IEEE patent policy
  • The membership had no questions on the policy
  • The chair requested information on essential patents, patent claims, and pending patent applications and called for letters of assurance. No response was made to the call
  • The chair also noted the affiliation FAQ, anti-trust FAQ, ethics code, IEEE 802.11 policies and procedures, and IEEE 802 policies and procedures
  • The chair reminded attendees to record attendance
  • After discussion, a revised agenda was accepted by unanimous consent

Approval of previous meeting minutes

  • November 6 teleconference (11-08/1289r0)
  • The chair asked for corrections; none were required
  • The chair requested approval by unanimous consent
  • There was no objection from the task group, so the minutes are approved

Editorial Draft Update

  • The chair proposed scheduling a vote to approve draft 4.01 on Wednesday.

Comment Resolution

  • Error in comment counts was corrected and uploaded as 11-08/1225r5
  • The chair proposed scheduling a Wednesday vote to approve the following groups of comments:
  • 1 – Editorial
  • 2 – QoS
  • 3 – HESSID
  • 4 – GAS
  • 5 – Native/Vendor Specific
  • 6 – GAS-Native
  • 7 – InterWorking IE
  • Comments from the Monday ad hoc were merged and the
  • Merged comments from Ad hoc this morning and uploaded as 11-08/1225r6

Changes made in 11-08/1225r7

  • CIDs 4309 & 4589 – George Bumiller will create a submission
  • CID 4576
  • Necati Canpolat: IEEE 802.21 has been approved by RevCom, and it is OK to refer to it in this manner.
  • Dave Stephenson: Since the draft is approved, the commenter's solution is met.
  • CID 4585
  • The group agreed that RFC 2903 is informative and should be moved to the bibliography.
  • Gabor Bajko: What is the purpose of the EDXL reference?
  • Matthew Gast: It is the message format used in the EASN.
  • Gabor Bajko: That is not the way that these messages are used.
  • Dave Stephenson: If EDXL defines the normative format of these messages, then it is an appropriate normative reference.
  • Matthew Gast: We have considered the substance of the comment and ensured that all normative references are in the right place. If investigation reveals that the normative specification is wrong, we should submit additional comments to repair the underlying text.
  • CIDs 4639, 4392, and 4633
  • Gabor Bajko: On CID 4639, you propose deleting "where one device assumes the role of AP". Does this mean there is no AP?
  • Moussa Bavafa: In CID 4639, you must define what a "personal device network" is to use this resolution.
  • Dave Stephenson: "where one device assumes the role of an AP" is informative text because these networks must be different from IBSS networks. There are some frames that only APs are allowed to transmit.
  • Comment changed to discuss while a definition is worked out.
  • CID 4221
  • David Cypher: The comment says that the title of the clause doesn't match the title in Table 7-43x.
  • Dave Stephenson: The best way to resolve this comment is to have a consistent name for these Info IDs.
  • The task group agreed to use the term "list" consistently for Native GAS. The terms "list element" and "information" and "list information" will be replaced with the word "list."
  • CIDs 4491 & 4503
  • Necati Canpolat: An editorial fix has already addressed these. Therefore, these comments should be accepted.
  • CID 4753
  • Matthew Gast: DNS redirection works by replying with the IP address of the redirect server no matter what the query name is. Therefore, the URL is not required.
  • Gabor Bajko proposed text that elaborates on the operation of DNS redirection which was accepted by the group.
  • CID 4755
  • The task group agreed to add a statement that the redirection URL is not included if the value of the redirection type is not equal to 2.
  • CID 4596
  • Dave Stephenson: Suggest stating that GAS can operate "regardless of whether the non-AP STA is authenticated and/or associated"
  • Agreement on this solution.
  • CID 4603
  • Gabor Bajko: Are there instances in the text where replacing SSP with SSPN is wrong?

The meeting recessed at 6:01 pm.

Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:30 PM to 9:30 PM

Acting chair: Dave Stephenson

Recording secretary: Matthew Gast

Call to order and agenda

Meeting called to order on Monday, November 10, 2008 by Dave Stephenson at 7:35 pm Central Standard Time (CST). The chair reminded attendees to record attendance.

Presentation: 11-08/1331r0, IP Address Type, Gabor Bajko

  • Necati Canpolat: The figures may need to be reformatted.
  • Nancy Cam-Winget: In 11i and 11w, we showed only the format for the frame with multiple fields broken into octets. If there were IEs in the frame, the IE would get a separate figure.
  • Discussion related to CID 4768
  • Gabor Bajko: This comment is proposed for rejection because this is a well-known concept.
  • Dave Stephenson: This is a valid concern. We could note in the comment resolution that we will align references at sponsor ballot.
  • To resolve what to do with this comment, the following straw poll was taken:

Straw poll (7:58 pm): "Should there be References (i.e., RFC numbers) in the 802.11u draft to IPv4 and IPv6 address types for clause 7.3.3.9?"

  • Vote: 0 in favor, 2 opposed, 7 abstentions

Editorial revisions on the document are necessary, so an approval motion was scheduled for a future session.

Presentation: 11-08/1333r0, Corrections to Date & Time Information, Gabor Bajko

  • Necati Canpolat: We should spell out the range of values in the text and their conventional usage.
  • Moussa Bavafa: The time should be truncated to the nearest second.

The group recessed into ad hoc mode for the purpose of comment resolution at 8:21 pm.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:30 AM to 12:30 PM

Acting chair: Dave Stephenson

Recording secretary: Matthew Gast

Call to order and agenda

Meeting called to order on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 by Dave Stephenson at 10:38 am Central Standard Time (CST). The chair reminded attendees to record attendance. Presentations were reordered, and the revised agenda (revision 4) was accepted by unanimous consent.

  • Motions will be stored in 11-08/1317r0 and its revisions.

Presentation: 11-08/1268r2, Amendment for emergency alert system notification, Amy Zhang

  • Necati Canpolat: I am in favor of the second option, since it consolates the EAS messaging into one spot.
  • Gabor Bajko: What does it mean for a STA that associates to an AP and sees the EICI set to a value.
  • Amy Zhang: This field tells a STA the EAS message has changed, and the STA needs to refresh alert messages. This field appears in every Beacon. If a STA has already taken the alert messages, it does not need to fetch them again.
  • Dave Stephenson: The lifetime of the message is embedded in the message itself, so a STA can see if the message is still valid.
  • Dave Stephenson: What happens when an emergency disappears?
  • Amy Zhang: We do not know what happens at the higher layers. If the lifetime of a message expires, the STA does not need to refresh.
  • Necati Canpolat: If an AP indicates there is a message, it will increment the counter. Associated STAs will go into power saving mode and may not retrieve messages quickly. In the unassociated mode, a lifetime of one minute makes the protocol useless. The WFA Public Safety task group is addressing the use of emergency alerts.
  • The following straw poll was proposed:
    Straw poll (11:06 am): "Which solution do you prefer and in favor of the author submitting the corresponding normative text?"
  • Vote: 0 in favor of solution 1, 7 in favor of solution 2, 5 abstentions

The presenter then discussed 11-08/1275r2, normative text to implement solution 2.

  • Gabor Bajko: If there is not an EASN message available, it is not clear whether a network supports EASN.
  • Dave Stephenson: Other capabilities are described in the Extended Capabilities field. We can put the EASN capability in that field,
  • Due to the proposed changes, the presenter agreed to work offline and bring a revised proposal back to the group for further discussion.

Presentation: 11-08/1290r0, Mapping Differentiated Service Classes to User Priorities, Osama Aboul-Magd

  • Dave Stephenson: We could increase the number of exception elements to 21 so that it would be possible to encode the RFC 4594 behavior in the existing DSCP mapping.
  • Osama Aboul-Magd: I would support that.
  • Osama Aboul-Magd: I will draft a proposal for a modification to Annex T

At 11:33 am, Matthew Gast began chairing the meeting to enable the acting chair to present.

Presentation: 11-08/1266r0, HESSID Update, Dave Stephenson

  • One small edit was made to the document, and that change will be uploaded as revision 1.
  • No questions on the presentation.

Presentation: 11-08/1303r0, LB-137 Vendor Specific List Comment Resolution, Dave Stephenson

  • Necati Canpolat proposed striking "so that" in a specific part of the text, and this revision will be saved as revision 1.
  • Necati Canpolat: How many elements are supported?
  • Dave Stephenson: One 7.3.3.1 elements may be in a query, but STAs may also include multiple 7.3.3.1.
  • David Cypher: The status code was included in the element. Is it a vendor specific code?
  • Dave Stephenson: It should be drawn from Table 7-23.
  • The presenter made on-line edits to the text, and will upload it as revision 1.
  • Moussa Bavafa: Why was the status code removed from the request?
  • Dave Stephenson: There is no status on a request.

Presentation: 11-08/1304r0, LB 137 QoS Map primitives, Dave Stephenson

  • No questions on the presentation.

At the conclusion of the presentation, Dave Stephenson resumed the chair of the meeting at 11:54 am.

Comment Resolution

  • Necati Canpolat requested a discussion on MLME-Start
  • Necati Canpolat: Is all this information required in the primitive?
  • Dave Stephenson: These elements are all required to create Beacons.
  • Necati Canpolat: This is not consistent with MLME-Scan.
  • Necati Canpolat: We should pass explicit parameters instead of the Interworking element.
  • Dave Stephenson: If you don't pass the Interworking element, you will need to list all the contents explicitly.
  • CID 4003
  • Gabor Bajko: How do these elements relate to admission control?
  • Dave Stephenson: These values are provided by the SSP as part of a user subscription. These are not part of the ADDTS and DELTS admission control procedures. These elements can be used when there is no admission control procedures.
  • Proposed resolution: Reject
  • CID 4034
  • Dave Stephenson: This should refer to all stations because it influences AP behavior.
  • Moussa Bavafa withdrew the comment.
  • CID 4128
  • Necati Canpolat: We need to align the document with the current base standard.
  • Dave Stephenson: This doesn't align with the baseline draft, since the baseline doesn't say "broadcast/group address"
  • David Cypher: These paragraphs are labeled "insert" and therefore are new text. If we think these are modifications of the base standard, the editorial instruction should be "change."
  • Necati Canpolat volunteered to align the text.

The group recessed at 12:30 pm.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM

Acting chair: Dave Stephenson

Acting recording secretary: Necati Canpolat

Call to order and agenda

Meeting called to order on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 by Dave Stephenson at 1:30 pm Central Standard Time (CST). The chair reminded attendees to record attendance. The agenda for the block was adopted by unanimous consent.

Presentation: 11-08/1292r0, 3GPP Use of Interworking, George Bumiller

  • Gabor Bajko: It was not good idea to take this thing out of TGu and now put it back
  • George Bumiller: It was initially an empty container.
  • Dave Stephenson: In LB 132 there was a 3GPP protocol ID but there was no description. Hence we acted on a comment and removed it. Now now 3GPP has a reference to TGu and they will use it. We must put it back.
  • Gabor Bajko: Why are we not taking it consideration what 3GPP is telling us. 3GPP sent us liaison 11-08/1212r0. They say very clearly there that what we need to do is to download the PLMN list from the AP.
  • George Bumiller: In Hawaii there was no protocol defined within 3GPP but now CT1 defined the protocol and content in their Annex A. This is a recent development in September 2008.

Presentation:11-08-1286/r4, 3GPP cellular network information, George Bumiller

  • Necati Canpolat: Is the 3GPP reference date (June 2008) correct?
  • Answer: The correct reference date is September 2008. This will be updated in 11-08/1286r5.
  • Gabor Bajko: The name is a problem. Why is it "3GPP cellular broadcast information?" We should find a better name.
  • Dave Stephenson: Suggest calling it "PLMN"
  • Roger Durand: It is OK to drop "broadcast" from the name
  • Gabor Bajko: "Cellular" should be dropped from the name
  • Roger Durand: All this information is related to cellular
  • Gabor Bajko: "Broadcast" is wrong
  • Roger Durand: We should move forward. It is possible to ask during a letter ballot to remove "broadcast." It is valid point but minor one. However, "cellular" should stay because if it is removed any information may be sent.
  • George Bumiller: They can change any information they sent but not the label. The cellular is perhaps redundant but it helps readability.
  • Dave Stephenson: Suggest compromise that removes"broadcast" and keeps"cellular" so that we move forward
  • Gabor Bajko requested the following straw poll.

Strawpoll: Should the word "cellular" be retained in the name "3GPP Cellular Network Broadcast information" of the 7.3.3.1.1 element name (see 11-08/1264r4)?

  • Result: 3 for – 2 against – 5 abstentions.
  • Dave Stephenson: The Info ID field should be 2 octets.
  • The presenter revised the document as 11-08/1264r5 to make the change, and also removed the word "broadcast" from the text.

Motion: Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1286-05-000u-3gpp-cellular-network-information with the editorial changes made on line."

  • Moved by George Bumiller, seconded by Roger Durand
  • No discussion on the motion
  • Vote: 8 for – 0 against – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes

Necati Canpolat began chairing the meeting to enable the acting chair to present.

Presentation: 11-08/1305r0, LB 137 GAS update, Dave Stephenson

  • Necati Canpolat: Do we not need to have a field to identify number of NQ vendor specific info?
  • Dave Stephenson: Each NQ vendor specific element has a field length that can easily be parsed.

At the conclusion of the presentation, Dave Stephenson resumed as chair of the meeting.

Presentation: 11-08/1290r2, Mapping Differentiated Service Classes to User Priorities, Osama Aboul-Magd

  • No questions on the presentation.

Following the presentation, the task group recessed into ad-hoc mode to work on comment resolutions for comments received in Letter Ballot 137.

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM

Acting chair: Dave Stephenson

Recording secretary: Matthew Gast

Call to order and agenda

Meeting called to order on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 by Dave Stephenson at 1:38 pm Central Standard Time (CST). The chair reminded attendees to record attendance. After discussion, the group adopted a revised agenda by unanimous consent.

Approval Motions

Motion (1:47 pm): "Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1331-01-000u-corrections-to-ip-address-availability.doc and requests the technical editor to incorporate it into the IEEE 802.11u draft document."

  • Moved by Gabor Bajko, seconded by Necati Canpolat
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 4 in favor – 0 opposed – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (1:50 pm): "Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1333-01-000u-corrections-to-ap-date-time-and-time-zone-information.doc and requests the technical editor to incorporate it into the IEEE 802.11u draft document."

  • Moved by Gabor Bajko, seconded by Necati Canpolat
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 4 in favor – 0 opposed – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (1:52 pm): "Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1266-01-000u-lb137-hessid-udpate.doc and requests the technical editor to incorporate it into the IEEE 802.11u draft document."

  • Moved by Necati Canpolat, seconded by Matthew Gast
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 4 in favor – 0 opposed – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (1:57 pm): "Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1304-00-000u-lb137-qosmap-primitives.doc and requests the technical editor to incorporate it into the IEEE 802.11u draft document."

  • Moved by Necati Canpolat, seconded by Matthew Gast
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 2 in favor – 0 opposed – 3 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (1:59 pm): "Move that IEEE 802.11u approves document 11-08-1305-00-000u-lb137-gas-update.doc and requests the technical editor to incorporate it into the IEEE 802.11u draft document."

  • Moved by Necati Canpolat, seconded by Matthew Gast
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 2 in favor – 0 opposed – 3 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (2:02 pm): "Move to approve all editorial comments from LB 137, as incorporated into draft IEEE 802.11u D4.01."

  • Moved by Necati Canpolat, seconded by Matthew Gast
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 4 in favor – 0 opposed – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Comment Resolution

  • David Cypher requested changes to two comments: In CID 4261, add a cross-reference to 4735. In CID 4735, change the figure to indicate the IE has variable length. variable)
  • David Cypher: CIDs 4219 and 4472 both refer to paragraphs about DSCP values in 7.3.2.63. One of those paragraphs may have changed.

Motion (2:21 pm): "Move to approve comment resolutions in Comment Groups 2 through 4 inclusive in document 11-08-1225-08-000u-lb137-comment-spreadsheet.xls except for the following CIDs: 4261, 4735, and 4219."
Note: these are proposed comment resolutions in the categories of QoS, HESSID, and GAS."

  • Moved by Matthew Gast, seconded by David Cypher
  • No debate on the motion
  • Vote: 4 in favor – 0 opposed – 1 abstention
  • Motion passes (100%)

Motion (2:21 pm): "Move to approve comment resolutions in Comment Groups 5 and 6 inclusive in document 11-08-1225-08-000u-lb137-comment-spreadsheet.xls except for the following CIDs: 4261, 4735, and 4219.
Note: these are proposed comment resolutions in the categories of Native-VS and GAS-Native."