NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
JULY 2006
CONFIRMED MINUTES
JULY 18-20, 2006
AUDITORIUM MADRID HOTEL
MADRID, SPAIN
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2006 (CLOSED MEETING)
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1 Call to Order/Quorum Check
Chairperson Phil Keown called the meeting to order. A quorum was established with the user members defined below.
An attendance roster was distributed for all to sign. The following attendance list includes all present during the CLOSED and OPEN meetings on Tuesday – Thursday (July 18-20, 2006):
ATTENDANCE
User Members Present:
Name Company
Chuck Alvarez Goodrich Corp
*Andy Bakewell E M Inspection Co Ltd
Stephen Bauer Northrop Grumman Corporation
Alain Bouchet SAFRAN Group
Nick Brenton Goodrich Engine Control Systems
*Robert Custer AAA Plating & Inspection Inc
Jesus De La Cruz AIRBUS
Chris Dootson BAE Systems – (Air Systems)
Rubén Elvira AIRBUS
Yves Esquerre Airbus SAS
*Paul Evans NDT Inspection & Testing Ltd
Mike Gallagher Lockheed Martin (written proxy from Ron Levi)
Steve Garner Eaton Aerospace
Greg Hall Cessna Aircraft Co
Trevor Hiscox Airbus SAS
Thierry Jacques Eurocopter EADS France
David Jimenez EADS - CASA
Serge Labbé Héroux Devtek
Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux Devtek
Philip Keown GE Aviation
**Mercedes Mendoza AVIO SpA
Valery Monin SAFRAN Group
Manfred Podlech MTU Aero Engines GmbH
Bob Reynolds The Boeing Company
Carl Roche Textron Systems
Ron Rodgers GE Aviation
*Cindy Roth Team Industrial Services TCM Division
David Royce Pratt & Whitney
Bobby Scott Bombardier Inc.
*Ryan Soule Alcoa - Howmet Castings
Andy Statham Rolls-Royce plc
Andrea Steen Rolls-Royce Corp
Scott Sullivan Honeywell Aerospace
Wes Timmerman Raytheon Aircraft Co
Pat Thompson Honeywell Aerospace
Peter Torelli The Boeing Company
David Vaughn Spirit AeroSystems
*Gary White Orbit Industries
* Supplier Voting Member
** Associate
Other Participants/Members:
Name Company
Patrick Dubosc Sherwin / Babbco
Ian Evans Timet UK Limited
Patrick Gros Novatec
Stein Gulbrandsen Volvo Aero Norge
Serpil Kozludere TAI – Turkish Aerospace Ind.
Heinrich Kuchlbauer Aerotech Peissenberg GmbH & Co KG
Stephen Marsh Timet UK Limited
Tony Mays Maycast Nokes Ltd
Michael Noettl Magnetic Inspection Laboratory Inc.
Alan Parsons Bodycote Testing
Helmut Pfaender Aerotech Peissenberg GmbH & Co KG
Jonathan Pugh Bodycote Testing
John Riddell St Bernard Composites Ltd
Ben Smith Maycast Nokes Ltd
Dave Sullivan Wyman-Gordon Company
Lorenz Vinke Almecon
PRI Staff:
P. Michael Gutridge
Phil Ford
2.0 NEW TASK GROUP USER MEMBERS PRESENTATION
Off agenda item: Phil Keown noted that Manfred Podlech of MTU was presented with a leadership award by Nadcap at a reception on Monday night. Congratulations Manfred!
Staff Engineer Ford presented the Task Group New Members Introduction.
3.0 eAuditNet UPDATE
It was suggested and agreed that the user members of the Task Group obtain additional training of eAuditNet capabilities. This training to cover reporting functionality and any new enhancements.
ACTION ITEM: PRI to schedule time on the agenda for additional training during a closed session.
4.0 SUPPLIER EXTENSION REQUESTS / SUPPLIER ADVISORIES
No extension requests were submitted.
An update report was given on an advisory of a supplier.
5.0 PRIME PARTICIPATION – SITE VISITS
Greg Hall of Cessna Aircraft participated in an audit as an observer and gave a good report.
Mike Gallagher of Lockheed Martin reported on an audit performed by Lockheed Martin following a Nadcap audit. A number of findings were discovered within the quality system. Another audit was discussed in which several findings were discovered after the Nadcap audit by Lockheed Martin. Lockheed Martin will be conducting Quality System audit training at the October meeting for all Nadcap Auditors. The intent is to address some of the issues identified above.
Andy Statham of Rolls Royce plc witnessed an audit in the UK. The audit went smoothly and it was noted that the auditor did a fine job.
It was again noted that Prime participation is an excellent method to see what happens during an audit and to provide ideas for future training.
6.0 AUDITOR ISSUES / AUDITOR ADVISORIES
(5) Auditor current advisories were discussed.
It was requested that advisories be sent to the Task Group Users for review before being issued. Staff will send advisories that deal with User issues to the Task Group User for a 24 hour review period. Advisories have been issued that specify items for one User and the issue identified may pertain to other Users, which should be included in the advisory. General “Staff / PRI” advisories will not be sent for review.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to provide draft copy of auditor advisories to users for 24 hour review to allow
comment. This is only for Prime specific issues where another user may have the same requirement.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to verify if conflict of interest training for auditors is to be conducted in October.
A supplier request for the distribution of Auditor Advisories was brought forth. Discussion was tabled until the “open” session so suppliers could be involved.
7.0 TASK GROUP USER MEMBER APPROVAL TO REVIEW AUDITS
Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Bob Reynolds that Pat Thompson of Honeywell Aerospace be approved to review audits pending his New Task Group User Member training.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Andrea Steen that Chris Dootson of BAE Systems be approved to review audits.
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: Training of Pat Thompson to be completed by Staff Engineer P. Ford by July 19, 2006.
8.0 BASELINE CHECKLISTS – UPDATE
Staff Engineer M. Gutridge reported on the ballot results for the baseline checklist to the NMC. There were 18 total responses with 16 approvals, 1 waive and 1 disapproval. Disapproval comments are to be addressed by the Task Group during this meeting.
There is a planned release date of September 4, 2006 for posting in eAuditNet and implementation by December 4, 2006.
9.0 ACTION ITEM LIST – REVIEW
The list of action items was reviewed.
There was much discussion concerning the classification of a major and a minor nonconformance. This subject is still being addressed by the NMC Standardization Sub-Team. No clear timeframe for when a revised definition will be provided.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to find out if RAILs (Rolling Action Item Listings) are to be posted on the PRI website.
10.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES
Andy Statham raised a question concerning ASTM E 2104 and ASTM E 1742 and the illumination tables. They are not the same in each document. It was reported that the ASTM committee agreed to make them consistent.
Both the ASTM E 1417 revision 05 and ASTM E 1444 revision 05 have been amended. The latest document will contain an epsilon letter in the title.
11.0 NEW BUSINESS
Staff has requested a change in the method of reporting failed compliance jobs. This would eliminate current method of failure notification. The new method would use the Early Review notification form referenced in NOP-009. The form will be attached to the email sent to the users allowing them to respond to the recommendations noted by the Staff Engineer.
Motion Made by Dave Royce and seconded by Steve Garner to eliminate the compliance failure notification currently in use. The Early Review in NOP 009 will be utilized in its place.
Motion Carried Unanimously
The next NDT Supplier Symposium will focus on the baselines. The Method Chair / Alternate will present the baselines for their methods to the suppliers. Discussion tabled until the Open Meeting to allow feedback from the suppliers.
The control of the Prime supplements was discussed once the audits begin to use the new baseline revision. Also, there will be a balloting process, but it is not clearly defined at this time.
The topic of auditor interviewers was discussed. How can we get more Users to attend? It was noted that only a few people participates as it is. Users are urged to call in, what can be done to improve participation? Training of User members in interview protocol to be provided by PRI.
ACTION ITEM 1) PRI Auditor Hiring team to provide a 2 week notification to the Task Group User members prior to the candidates interview. 2) PRI Auditor Hiring team to put together training for Task Group User members to aid in the interview process. 3) The time of the interview is to be changed depending on the location of the candidate. The time will be 1100 EST for US candidates and 0800 EST for the European candidates.
ACTION ITEM PRI Staff to investigate recording (video or voice) the Lockheed Martin Quality System
auditing training presentation for future training purposes. Are there legal issues within Nadcap that would
prevent recording of training sessions?
ACTION ITEM Mike Gallagher of Lockheed Martin to investigate, with Lockheed Martin, if the
presentation can be recorded for training purposes.
OPEN MEETING
1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
The minutes from the April 24-27, 2006 meeting were approved as written.
Motion Made by Dave Royce and seconded by Ron Rodgers to accept the April minutes.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Supplier Voting Members Andy Bakewell, Robert Custer, Paul Evans, Cindy Roth, Ryan Soule, and Gary White were identified.
David Yates provided a written request that he be removed as a Supplier Voting Member. The Task Group would like to thank David for the work he has done as a Supplier Voting Member.
ACTION ITEM: PRI to revise the Task Group roster to reflect the change.
12.0 PRI NDT Staff Report
Staff Engineer Ford presented the Staff Report.
Discussion ensued on data collection, audit report and Auditor metrics and how to apply them.
13.0 TASK GROUP BUSINESS PLAN / METRICS
The metrics were presented. All metrics are rated red, yellow or green for status. These included year to date audits (green); Certification issued (green); First pass yield (yellow), Number of cycles to close an audit ; Initials (yellow) Reaccreds (green); Total supplier cycle time - Initials (green), Reaccreds (green); Total Staff cycle times - Initials (green) Reaccreds (green); Total Task Group User cycle time - Initials (green) Reaccreds (green), Percentage of eligible processors with merit (yellow).
14.0 REPORT OF NDT NEWSLETTER
A limited number of copies were available during the meeting. The Task Group was reminded that it is posted on the PRI website to download. The newsletter was discussed; the Task Group tries to put as much information to be used by the suppliers as possible. Volunteers are needed to contribute articles. Staff Engineer Jim Bennett was recognized as having done a great job putting the newsletter together. A”letter to editor” section was suggested. Also, having a Q&A forum article in the NDT Newsletter initiated by an SVM representative was suggested. Suppliers to feed questions to the Supplier Voting Members, the Supplier Voting Members would filter through the questions looking for similarities and then feed them to PRI. Questions and answers are then published in the NDT Newsletter.
15.0 NDT SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE (SSC) REPORT
The NDT STSTG has had its recognition and support revoked by the Task Group Users. There was not enough support in the supplier community to complete the agreed action items. The supplier members are going to re-group and present a plan at the October meeting.
SVM Andy Bakewell requested the Task Group Users to keep the technical information within the open meeting, and would like PRI Staff to include suppliers on distribution of Auditor Advisories that are technical or provide clarification. It was determined that there is data of confidential nature in most of these advisories. It was not agreed to include suppliers as this is a User member method of communicating issues to auditors.
16.0 NTGOP-001, APPENDIX 1 REVIEW
A finding during an NMC Oversight audit of the program revealed that the NTGOP-001, Appendix I, was not being reviewed on a regular basis as required by procedure. A review was conducted and future revision opportunities were discussed. Revision will be coordinated to occur with the release of the baseline checklists.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to update the NTGOP 001 appendix history block to reflect that a review has
been completed. No changes were made at this time.
17.0 NEW BUSINESS
None Presented
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Scott Sullivan to adjourn.
Motion Carried Unanimously
WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 2006 (CLOSED MEETING)
Off Agenda Item: Several Supplier and Auditor issues were discussed
18.0 PRIME SUPPLEMENTS
The implementation timeline for the baseline was discussed. The planned date for the release and posting of the baseline checklist in eAuditNet is September 4, 2006 with audits to the baseline beginning December 4, 2006.
All supplement data from the Primes must be sent to PRI by Monday July 24, 2006. Supplements received after that date may not be included in the initial release for use in December.
All User Voting Members are encouraged to “call in” for the upcoming fortnightly conference calls, as many of the balloting and Supplement issues will be discussed.
OPEN MEETING
Off agenda Item: Chairperson Keown gave an update on the Planning and Ops meeting.
There was an audit issue concerning the lack of an accredited quality system audit at a Supplier. Practice has been that if a Supplier does not have an accredited QA system audit they must have an AC 7004 or an AC 7006 audit in addition to the Nadcap Special Process audit. This practice will continue.
The AC baselines and the Supplements will be balloted to the Task Groups and the NMC. Once approved, both will be posted on eAuditNet. A final decision will be made on August 18, 2006.
The Heat Treat Task Group is considering that product from all primes / users that a Supplier does work for, be included in an audit over a defined period of time. The reviews during the audit will be actual hardware or paper audits. PRI is looking into using eAuditNet to track what primes product is being looked at during the audit. A time frame or a number of audits that all prime / user products will be reviewed is to be determined.
There was presentation on how and which Task Groups Users share information.
The NMC Standardization Sub-Team is working on the revised definitions for major and minor NCRs and is continuing their work based upon feedback from Task Groups.