I: Thanks Very Much for Coming Along for Our Career Coaching Session Today

Fifi WAV 03/02/2014

I: Okay. Hi Fifi

R: Hi.

I: Thanks very much for coming along for our career coaching session today.

R: No problem.

I: Now, when we were setting up the appointment you emailed me with a few things that you said you thought it might be interesting to talk about.

R: Yes.

I: So can I just ask you to say how it is that you’d like to use the time today?

R: I’m at a career…. I’m a qualified accountant and I’ve been qualified for seven, eight years, so I’ve been in an accounting field for a long time before that, but I find that that is not...I’ve always known that it’s not what I eventually want to do. I want the qualification to be able to enhance the career, but I would like to have a bit more operational in a business – operational background as well, so it’s not necessarily being a financial director, but a bit more maybe on an operational side with a financial background and I think the accounting qualification would benefit...I would benefit from that. So, this is more sort of looking at how do I move, whether vertically it’s easier or horizontally first and then maybe, you know, a career progression then, but also to link my values and interests in helping people and also in achieving like a project, or even an event and closing the event. That’s what Ilike, you know, rather than having an ongoing problem all the time, I’d like to...a bit more closure in terms of day to day work.

I: Right.

R: ...So...

I: Okay, so there’s quite a lot in there. I’ll just try and summarise it.

R: Yes.

I: So...and if you don’t mind, I might make a few notes whilst we’re talking and then just to help me. You can have them at the end if you like?

R: Yes.

I: If you can read them. So, you did your accountancy training and became a qualified accountant as a way in to your career development, yes?

R: Yes.

I: But you’re saying that you feel like you would like to have a broader role and some more operational oversight?

R: Yes.

I: Not just finance and you’re thinking about how to develop your career with that in mind?

R: Yes.

I: So that’s one piece.

R: Yes.

I: And there’s another piece, which is about having a career which is in line with your particular interests in...

R: ...And beliefs.

I: Beliefs?

R: Yes.

I: Okay.

R: And also I believe that a business shouldn’t just be about business. It should also be about helping people, but the business I’m in is just about selling. It’s selling a vehicle and it’s looking after...but there is an after-market side of things where we look after our customers and that’s what I’m heading towards at the moment, so whether that’s the right way to head or just sell, sell...

I: Okay. Yes, so you were talking about helping people and then you linked that to after-sales and customer care and developing relationships with customers and so forth?

R: Yes.

I: Okay. Tell me a bit about work at the moment then.

R: Work...it’s a...we are a marketing company, a manufacturing... We sell busses and coaches.

I: Okay.

R: We also sell the used business, which is the vehicles, but we also have the aftermarket and parts – we sell the parts. It’s...I’ve been involved in Volvo Bus for ten years now. I started in just the business control, which is just purely financed and what I feel is you’re not necessarily being commercially aware when you’re in a finance... All you’d think is you’re making money or not. Do we have enough to cover losses or not, and that’s it. There is a wider picture. I find that there’s a wider picture of how the sales people, or the sales director make decisions and I push towards being a bit...a little bit more commercially aware and now I’ve moved into a contract commercial role, so looking at how we look after our customers by selling them a contract maintenance; a full package where they don’t have any worries about the vehicle, the vehicle breakdown anyway, but...so I’m involved in the pricing, so I find that the finance background helps because then we’re involved in the pricing, involved in the risk business and then now I’m involved in a little bit on the contract side and I have not a clue about the legal side, but I wanted that commercial awareness.

I: Yes.

R: And that’s just started last year...

I: ...Okay.

R: ...To do that, but the next step is whether that is the right way or where else I can go in terms of helping the customer. Now, I’m in a bit of a dilemma where I want to make money for the business because that’s how they pay our salary, but also get the customer the right package if you like, because we are quite strict in terms of our terms and conditions and then we price it too high maybe and then it’s not helping them, so its their business, but I feel that my values are in between to help them, because I tend to try to see what...how am I if I’m the customer, whereas not thinking about the business. I tend to be...so am I in the wrong line of, you know, actually we’re selling and making a profit and should I be in a non-profit organisation, or am I...you know?

I: Okay.

R: That’s where I’m coming from.

I: Right.

R: So that’s...now it’s in terms of my self-satisfaction in terms of work.

I: Okay, so there’s a little bit of a mismatch perhaps between your interest in the commercial...having the commercial awareness and developing that commercial aspect of your role, but then working in the sector that you’re in and thinking about...

R: ...Profit.

I: ...Having to think about the company’s bottom line?

R: Yes, yes.

I: Okay, so what do you think it would be helpful for us to focus on?

R: I think it’s how I should have my beliefs…. What...I need you to bring out in me how...what do I actually believe in? What...do I believe in helping people, do I believe in achieving profit, and that will give me satisfaction or not? Going home at the end of the day, whether I would feel satisfied and that I’ve achieved...I’ve done enough at work. At the moment I’m still thinking...I’m not...before it used to be, ‘I will have to get my qualifications, get qualified, get the money in,’ and now it’s a little bit more, ‘Right, okay we’re comfortable.’ You know, I need a little bit more satisfaction or I’m coming home and saying, “Right, I’ve done that. I’ve changed this. I’ve changed that a bit,” whereas now we’re all...we’re selling at that price and that’s it. If they don’t accept it we can’t go any further down because of the company’s bottom line, so I’m not torn as yet, but I just feel that my...I’m a bit more aware that I need a little bit more satisfaction if you like, in terms of my belief, so it might be that I’m in the right line – not yet. I can make changes if I go higher as a...maybe not just a manager but as a director and I can make some changes there, or should I move to another department where...not necessarily helping customers and just stay in a job?

I: Okay, so there are some options there that involve staying with the organisation?

R: Yes.

I: And what other options are sort of bouncing around your mind?

R: A charity organisation. That’s always been at the back of mind, whether...am I making enough of a difference every day, not just profit – not just talking about profit, profit, profit or we’re not making money all of the time.

I: Yes.

R: So, after a lot of years it seems to be not...to me, not important anymore, other than paying a salary.

I: So, it’s interesting that use the phrase ‘helping people’, which is a really general one. Perhaps it’s worth having a little...spending a little time looking at what it is that your organisation does that helps people.

R: Yes.

I: Yes, so...well what...perhaps I’ll ask you, what would happen if your organisation wasn’t there?

R: In terms of the employees or in terms of just me as an individual or...?

I: ...Or in terms of customers.

R: Oh, in terms of customers? That’s interesting. I don’t think people...some people would be able to go to work because we sell...we sell the busses in London for example and if we don’t...if we don’t exist there’s no busses being put in London. There are ...there’s no transportation for the people, the workforce who, you know, actually go and use the public transport to go to work. There will be other means yes, but it will probably be a little bit more difficult for them, so if we don’t put these busses into the city centres then people will struggle to get to work at an affordable price, if you like, so we sell the vehicles at a very strict margin in order to help the councils, you know, for them to put the public transport into this route, so we take a little bit of a hit in terms of profit, but then we make money on the after-sales on the parts to repair these vehicles, so if our organisation doesn’t exist then there wouldn’t be any public transport – probably half, yes.

I: Right, okay.

R: So yes, we’re the market leaders at the moment, so interestingly you put it that way; that if we don’t...the company doesn’t exist then we won’t...yes.

I: Yes. Yes, I just really wanted to challenge your thinking I guess about whether private organisations produce things that are of value?

R: Yes. Yes, that was interesting, that if you put it that way if we didn’t...yes.

I: So, I’m imagining that when you talked about your move from financial control into contracts, are you working now more with people who perhaps come from a sales background?

R: Yes, very much.

I: Okay, well I’d be interested to ask you how you’re finding that.

R: Most of them will be interested in selling.

I: Okay.

R: And they’re not interested in how we come to the costing for example – the costing of a bus. They’re not interested at all. How much I can sell it for and how much the customer wants to pay is what they want to know. If it’s below the cost price, that’s how much I can sell. It’s up to you to deal with the cost, so it’s a bit of a tricky relationship, but we try to understand each other and that’s where I find that I’m always at a block going, “I can see your point. I can really see your point and I really want to help you, but I can’t.” This cost comes from Sweden because our head office is Sweden, so you go to Sweden and challenge them and then you go further up and they go, “Sorry, I can’t do anything,” and you go back to them and say, “I can’t do it. My customer will not do it.” They will take their business somewhere else, so what do we do? We underwrite it. We...okay, we sell it. We get the volume, but we’ll cream off the profit from somewhere else and that’s where I find I really want to help the salesperson. I can understand their position. I can’t understand fully how they could go out and sell with the customer going, you know, “Go away and re-price your vehicle,” or...and that’s where I’m always stuck.

I: Okay.

R: “Yes, I really want to help you,” but me in an accounting hat going, “I can’t get any more profit from somewhere else...” That’s our profit and at the moment I’m torn between having a financial hat and a commercial hat, so yes.

I: Right, okay. Yes, I can imagine you’re doing a lot of negotiating and holding kind of...holding in tension some conflicting ideas and kind of mediating that?

R: Yes and there’s a bigger picture where the sales people come from – there is a bigger picture thinking, ‘Look. Think long-term. If we don’t sell these vehicles our aftermarket later on will suffer because there are not enough vehicles on the road in order for us to sell parts.’ Do we take the hit now, but how much of a hit now, especially now with the economy? How much of a hit now that we can take? You know, we won’t have any reserves for future, so yes.

I: So there are two arguments bouncing around?

R: Yes.

I: And how do you see those arguments dealt with at kind of higher level within your organisation?

R: It is probably taking the hit. We take the cream off the profit from somebody else. Not somebody else, but somewhere else where we can because we need the business. At the moment everybody is trying to fight for a market that is a little bit saturated, but we are still the market leaders for supplying vehicles, but if not, somebody else will come in and just say, “We’ll offer you the...” The Far East are coming. The Far East manufacturers are coming in at bottom rock prices, but they don’t have the branding, they don’t have the aftermarket to follow it on, but then who cares now? The customer will just buy it. The long-term customers that we have, the problem with our business is that the customers that have been with us have been 40 years, 20-odd years with us. They still challenge us. “We want to buy you, but give us a more realistic price. I can go and buy it somewhere else.”

I: Yes.

R: So, we find...I find that every so often the big customers will say, “This is what we’re willing to pay and we’ll take the hit,” and that again is not necessarily...I’m not saying that I feel comfortable with, but we’re thinking, ‘Oh again,’ but at least we’ve got the business and they’ll be there for a number of years – maybe seven, eight years to buy our parts later on. So yes, in a way it’s always profit, less profit.

I: Yes. So, I was wondering how you’re dealing with the kind of how this makes you feel.

R: Yes. I think on my side I understand why we’re doing it, but on the other hand is there a better way to handle the situation? Is there a bigger...is there a more head office issue that we have to tackle, but we’re masking it by taking the hit here in the UK?

I: Yes.

R: But is there another global issue that should be addressed in terms of making the vehicle more cheaper – slightly cheaper then why can the Far East manufacturers do it? Why can’t we do it? Is there a quality issue there? Is there a quality issue? So, there are all sorts of things that I’ve been...it’s just playing in my mind that there is more of a wider problem.

I: Yes, okay. So that’s really interesting because having made the move that you’ve made you’re seeing strategic issues for the business?

R: Yes.

I: And perhaps you couldn’t see those from the position you were in before in financial control?

R: No.

I: Yes, so this is all learning about the move that you made?

R: Yes.

I: I was wondering in terms of your line management and the management above you, do you have any forum to be discussing what you’re learning in this role?

R: Not necessarily learning. We do have appraisals if you like. They’re half-yearly and then end of year and you set objectives and then you see whether you’ve met the objectives. It’s now going to be linked. This year it’s going to be linked to the salary. It’s never been linked before, so it’s a bit subjective, so everybody is thinking, ‘Right, I’ll just put my normal day to day work so that they’re not...’ So, there’s a bit of debate there as well, which I believe it’s wrong because the objective should be a challenging one. If you don’t achieve it then there are reasons for it and then there should be an open discussion, so there is a way, but there isn’t anything to say; ‘Now you’re in a new role. What have you learned from it? What can you bring in?’ But I think during the appraisal that should be the discussion between me and the line manager. I think that will be up to me to say, “Actually, I’m learning this. I’m learning my new role should be this way. What do you think? Is that why you employ me for?” but there isn’t any mechanism in the HR Department to say, “Have you learnt anything with your new role?”

I: So you say that would be on you to raise that in your appraisal?

R: Yes.

I: Do you think you would be able to raise that?

R: I would. Up to a certain extent I would do it and the line manager that I work with, we get on really well and in terms of personal as well – and before, our previous manager because we’re a small unit within the company and we all know each other quite well, so it’s fairly easy to talk to if you have any concerns, but whether he can influence a lot more than we would like, it will be a different story because he’s also reporting to the MD of our company and he then reports to Sweden so there are a lot of levels if you like.

I: Yes.

R: And to make one thing...to change one thing will take a long time, whereas like I say, if I do work in maybe a more flat organisation then a change could be a lot easier and then you think, “Right okay, I’ve done that,” whereas it can take months or even a year or two years to change certain things.

I: Yes. I can see we could talk for a long time.

R: Yes.

I: We could spend quite a lot of time looking at your career development within your organisation, you know. I mean for example, it would be interesting to think about how you got from financial control to contracts and what you’ve...how your career development might progress, but then there’s this whole other piece about would smaller organisations, or organisations with a different values base be more satisfying?