(Commodity) Task Group Minutes s14
NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
JANUARY 2007
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
JANUARY 23-25, 2007
CROWNE PLAZA REDONDO BEACH
REDONDO BEACH, CALIFORNIA, USA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
TUESDAY, JANUARY 23, 2007 (CLOSED MEETING)
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1 Call to Order/Quorum Check
The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Phil Keown. A quorum was established with the user members defined below.
An attendance roster was distributed for all to sign. The following attendance list includes all present during the CLOSED and OPEN meetings on Tuesday – Thursday (01/23-25/07):
ATTENDANCE
User Members Present:
Name Company
Chuck Alvarez Goodrich Aerostructures Group
Alain Bouchet SAFRAN Group
Juergen Burchards MTU Aero Engines GmbH
David Chellman Lockheed Martin Corporation
Chris Dootson BAE Systems (Air Systems)
Yves Esquerre Airbus SAS
Steve Garner Eaton Aerospace
Gary Gathman Parker Aerospace Group
Leo Going United Space Alliance
Greg Hall Cessna Aircraft Company
Paul Harris Bell Helicopter Textron
Paul Higgins Defense Contract Management Agency
Trevor Hiscox Airbus SAS
Robert Hogan Honeywell Aerospace
Thierry Jacques Eurocopter
Phil Keown GE Aviation
Serge Labbé Héroux Devtek
Doug Ladd The Boeing Company
Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux Devtek
Ron Levi Lockheed Martin Corporation
Doug Lynn MD Helicopters
Mike Mitchell Hamilton Sundstrand
Dale Norwood Parker Aerospace Group
Manfred Podlech MTU Aero Engines GmbH
Doug Prenovost Northrop Grumman Corporation
Bob Reynolds The Boeing Company
Carl Roche Textron Systems
Ron Rodgers GE Aviation
David Royce Pratt & Whitney
Bobby Scott Bombardier Inc.
Michael Shiplett Vought Aircraft Industries Inc.
Jerry Smith Lockheed Martin Corporation
Louis Smith Defense Contract Management Agency
Andy Statham Rolls-Royce plc
Andrea Steen Rolls-Royce Corporation
Chris Stevenson Rolls-Royce plc
D. Scott Sullivan Honeywell Aerospace
Pat Thompson Honeywell Aerospace
Pete Torelli The Boeing Company
David Vaughn Spirit AeroSystems
Larry Walker Defense Contract Management Agency
Kirk Whalen Héroux Devtek
Supplier Participants:
Name Company
Richard Abbo Senior Aerospace Bosman b.v.
Walter Asmus Jr. Magnetic Inspection Laboratory
Larry Blankenship Ogden Air Logistics Center
Edward Budy Jr. Texas Composite Inc
*Robert Custer AAA Plating & Inspection Inc
Michael Dudley Aerocom Inspection Service Ltd
*Paul Evans NDT Inspection & Testing Ltd.
*William Evridge X-R-I Testing
Chuck Gee Stork Materials Testing & Inspection
Robert Gifford Praxair Surface Technologies
Ricardo Guzman Bodycote Gardena
Randy Hite PCC Structurals Inc.
Don Horzewski Ladish Co Inc
Eric Jacklin F.M. Callahan & Son Inc
*Richard King New Hampshire Ball Bearings Inc
Richard Kline X-R-I Testing
Tim MacDougall Alcoa Fastening Systems Fullerton
Edward Macejak Carpenter Technology Corp
*Skip McDougall Hitco Carbon Composites Inc.
Roger Mezenen Hill AFB, DoD
*David Mitchell Mitchell Laboratories Inc
Michael Noettl Magnetic Inspection Laboratory Inc
*Mark Pompe West Penn Testing Group
Bernadette Recio Corpus Christi Army Depot
Grant Reynolds Air Capitol Plating Inc.
Elidia Rios Alcoa Fastening Systems
Sebastian Rook Senior Aerospace Bosman b.v.
*Cindy Roth Team Industrial Services TCM Division
*Ryan Soule Alcoa – Howmet Castings
Joanne Weinoe Golden State Magnetic & Penetrant Lab
*Gary White Orbit Industries Inc
Robert Woodside Lycoming Engines
* Supplier Voting Member
** Associate
PRI Staff:
Mark Aubele
P. Michael Gutridge
2.0 TASK GROUP REGULAR BUSINESS ITEMS
The new member orientation presentation was given for the benefit of all in attendance.
No requests for extensions.
No Supplier Advisory updates.
Andrea Steen of Rolls Royce Corp made comments on the NUCAP Audit at her facility.
Ron Rodgers commented on two audits that were conducted after Nadcap Audits were performed. Comments were positive.
Auditor Advisory 07-0001 was reviewed. The advisory provides clarification of baseline issues.
ACTION ITEM: Auditor Advisory 06-0007 was discussed and Bobby Scott and Chris Stevenson volunteered
to provide information to staff on the issue of NANDTB utilization.
Motion made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by David Royce to approve Lee Going of United Space Alliance as a User Voting Member for audit review.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Discussion ensued on the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the usage of the Chemical Processing AC 7108/2 checklist. Some items of the MOU are The CP Task Group will maintain the checklist, approve the Auditors, a failure of the CP audit will not fail the NDT audit, the CP Task Group will conduct audit review, and the NDT Auditors will only perform Temper/Nital Etch and Pre Penetrant Etch. Refer to the MOU for additional details.
Motion made by Mike Mitchell and seconded by Andrea Steen to accept the MOU with the Chemical Processing Task Group.
Motion Carried Unanimously
3.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES
NOP-002, The General Task Group Operating Procedure paragraph 3.4 was discussed. This paragraph requires a manufacturer to obtain an AC7004 accreditation if no other Quality System approvals are in place.
Motion made by Scott Sullivan to amend NOP 002 paragraph 3.4 deleting the last sentence, “Where no other existing recognized quality system approval exists [...].”
No Second
Motion made by Mike Mitchell to add the word “may” to this paragraph.
No Second
A recommendation was made to bring up this item at the NMC meeting as this may affect all Task Groups.
The Supplier Merit Process was discussed; can the extended frequency be greater than 24 months? The Standardization Sub Committee is looking into changes of this nature, as well as others. Further discussion is tabled until the Sub Committee makes its recommendations.
The audit failure criterion of NOP-011 was discussed. The justification of not failing a Supplier that was identified via a failure notification was discussed; if the Task Group votes to not fail a Supplier, justification must be documented.
Motion made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Andy Statham to document the reasons why a Supplier was not failed if the possibility failure was identified.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Off Agenda Item: Discussion ensued on capturing Task Group resolution to questions. There needs to be a formal method of capturing resolutions.
Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Bob Reynolds to utilize the existing handbooks to document Task Group resolutions.
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: Staff to begin to utilize the handbooks to capture resolutions that effect the audits.
A different agenda for general auditor training was presented. The new format would be over a four day period covering the baselines, eAuditNet, NCR writing, etc. This would be for all Auditors and should enhance the Auditor’s performance.
Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Trevor Hiscox to accept the proposed training agenda except have 3 days on handbook training instead of the proposed 2.
Discussion
Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Trevor Hiscox to amend the previous motion to provide 2 to 3 days training based on the number of methods for the baselines, handbook, NCR writing, and compliance jobs.
Motion Carried Unanimously
There has been a change in the early review process. NOP-006 has been revised to require the Prime reviewer to review audits for early notification issues (i.e., potential impact), as opposed to PRI notify the Reviewer. Note: eAuditNet notifies all User Members of all audits submitted.
4.0 NEW BUSINESS
An ad hoc committee was formed to meet with a Supplier concerning a failed audit. The committee will consist of Ron Rodgers, Doug Ladd, Manfred Podlech, Pat Thompson, Greg Hall, Doug Lynn, Jurgen Burchards, and Doug Prenovost. Two Primes gave a report of their visit/audit of the Supplier after the subject audit #114793.
OPEN MEETING
1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes.
The minutes from the October 18-19, 2006 meeting were approved.
Motion Made by Bob Reynolds and seconded by Cindy Roth to accept the October Minutes.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Supplier Voting Members Robert Custer, Paul Evans, William Evridge, Skip McDougall, Mark Pompe, Cindy Roth, Ryan Soule and Gary White, Richard King, David Mitchell were identified.
5.0 PRI REPORT
The Staff Report was presented.
The NMC metrics were presented.
Chairperson Keown reported on the newsletter. The group is looking for items that are important to YOU. Please contact staff if you are interested in writing an article or if you have ideas for articles.
The RAIL (Rolling Action Items List) was presented.
6.0 SUPPLIER REPORT / DISCUSSION
Gary White presented a Supplier Support Committee Update.
7.0 SUPPLIER FLOW DOWN TEMPLATE
As part of the Supplier Support Effort, each Task Group has been tasked with developing a Flow Down template, which will be included in a Handbook. The template will designate what information is given to lower tier Suppliers from the upper tier to ensure all quality requirements are met. The Task Group reviewed and discussed a template developed by the Chemical Processing Task Group.
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Andy Statham to accept the template as revised for NDT.
Motion Carried Unanimously
8.0 NTGOP-001, APPENDIX I REVIEW
Discussion ensued concerning a proposal to revise NTGOP-001 Appendix I, that will add the following to paragraph 6.3. “Audits that have been through the review process and accredited will not be re-opened if subsequent review by a User member identifies issues of clarification or additional nonconformances. Clarifications may be handled outside of the eAuditNet program and closure verified as directed by the requestor. If additional nonconformances are discovered, a Supplier Advisory will be issued and processed according to existing procedures.”
9.0 NEW BUSINESS
To be continued at the Wednesday open meeting
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 24, 2007 (OPEN MEETING)
9.0 NEW BUSINESS (Continued from Tuesday)
Supplier Voting Members Robert Custer, Paul Evans, William Evridge, Skip McDougall, Mark Pompe, Ryan Soule and Gary White, Richard King, David Mitchell were identified.
Motion Made by David Mitchell and seconded by Richard King to approve Grant Reynolds as a Supplier Voting Member.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Motion Made by Trevor Hiscox and seconded by David Mitchell to approve Paul Gifford as a Supplier Voting Member.
Motion Carried Unanimously
A revision to NTGOP Appendix 1, which would define the responsibilities of the Method Chairpersons and Vice Chairpersons, was presented. This would allow for a group for each method as opposed to 2 individuals.
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Andy Statham to accept the proposed revision.
Motion carried by Majority Vote
Discussion continued on the revision/addition to NTGOP-001 paragraph 6.3 from Tuesday’s meeting.
Motion Made by David Royce and seconded by Mr. Michael Mitchell to accept the proposed wording to NTGOP-001 paragraph 6.3
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to ballot changes.
The definition of major vs. minor findings was discussed as proposed by the NMC. The Nadcap Quality Manual will be revised to include the new definitions, which is to be published in January.
The meeting was closed to hear an appeal of failed audit 114793.
Motion Made by Dave Vaughn and seconded by Ron Rodgers to fail audit 114793.
Motion carried by Majority Vote.
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Dave Vaughn to revoke the current accreditation for the Supplier referenced in audit 114793.
Motion carried by Majority Vote.
The meeting was re-opened
10.0 AUDIT HANDBOOK REVIEW
Proposed revisions to HB7114 were discussed. The proposals are due to observations that have been made during implementation of the baselines.
ACTION ITEM: PRI staff to ballot proposed changes to the Task Group.
THURSDAY, JANUARY 25, 2007 (CLOSED MEETING)
A supplier in Europe has requested an extension to audit 108627.
Motion Made by Dave Vaughn and seconded by Andy Statham to grant a 90-day extension.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Andy Statham to have PRI investigate how the Primes identify specifications as “Export Control”.
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: PRI to investigate how the Primes identify specifications as “Export Control.”
Discussion ensued concerning copies of techniques being omitted from the audit package due to being classified as proprietary. Some Suppliers are not allowing copies of techniques to be made for attachment to the compliance section of the audit.
Motion Made by Dave Royce and seconded by Bob Hogan, if the Auditor is told that copies of supporting data for the compliance section cannot be made due to proprietary reasons, the Auditor is to call staff and staff is to notify the Supplier that the audit will not be conducted.
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: An Auditor Advisory needs issued to instruct the Auditor to include this in the opening
meeting.
Mr. Michael Mitchell volunteered write an article to be included in the newsletter on this topic.
ACTION ITEM: Michael Mitchell to submit article on the above topic for the NDT newsletter.
An issue arose concerning what was required to be seen by the Auditors as far as the qualification of an external Level 3, and what certifications the external Level 3 requires. An inquiry to the AIA Committee concerning the certification of the Outside Level 3 was submitted.
If the outside Level 3 is performing inspections for the company, or is acting as their responsible Level 3, the company must certify them. If the outside Level 3 is administering exams, conducting training or performing other Level 3 duties such as procedure review for the company, someone other than the company may certify them.
ACTION ITEM: PRI staff needs to ensure that the above interpretation is correct with the AIA and then issue
an auditor advisory.
11.0 USER MEMBER SUPPLEMENTS
The Auditors have raised several questions concerning the Supplements. The questions were addressed.
Motion Made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Pete Torelli to establish a six-month frequency to make changes to the Supplements.
Motion amended to review supplements in conjunction with the Task Group meetings.
Motion carried by Majority Vote
Motion Made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Dave Vaughn that when utilizing NiCr panels for the System Performance Test, that an initial side by side comparison must be made utilizing both panel in unused materials. A color photo shall be taken to establish documentation of the original condition of the panels. This method establishes the baseline that the panels are the same. If utilizing the NiCr panels, the test for remove-ability is not satisfied.