PART II: JUSTICE IN THE STATE AND THE SOUL (Comprises Books II-IV)
Books II & III
1. What three kinds of Goods are there, according to Socrates?
2. Glaucon then wants to flesh out Thrasymachus’s account into a full-blown counterfactual to Socrates’s preliminary definition. Glaucon, with Adeimentus’s help, work to force Socrates to respond to a Thrasymachus-inspired cynical counterfactual definition of Justice.
3. Does Glaucon’s devil’s advocate argument suggest (or presume) an approach to justice where one works to be seen to be just, rather than to inherently be just?
4. On what logic does Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual (or devil’s advocate) definition of Justice rest? (182 right – 184 left)
5. How does the Gyges of Lydia Myth support this view of human nature?
6. What thinkers or approach to political theory from PLSC 261 does Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual remind you of? (See especially 185 left, at line 364)
Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s “counterfactual” idea of Justice: The good life is best procured through injustice (when one can get away with it) masked by a good reputation and atoned for by bribery (of the Gods).
Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s notion of Justice is a counterfactual that nicely sets up Socrates’s (very different) account of Justice.
6. How does Socrates begin his response to Glaucon’s & Adeimantus’s counterfactual (on p.187 right column). Socrates does not use the social contract type argument of G & A we discussed. Why do we form cities or “society” according to Socrates? What thinker from PLSC 261 does Socrates’s new account on p. 187-189 remind you of?
7. Does Socrates prefer a citizen army or a professional army (mercenaries)? (p. 190, right column, p. 191 left column)
Importance of Specialization
Importance of Guardians (who will be split into Rulers & Auxiliaries)
Characterization of the Guardians’ nature on p. 191
How does the nature of pedigreed dogs help suggest the most desirable nature of the Guardians? (191 right and 192 left)
“Philosophy, spirit, speed, and strength must all, then, be combined in the nature of anyone who is to be a fine and good guardian of our city.”
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Book II, p. 192 bottom left through Book III, p. 211 left middle: Education & Socialization of the Guardians. (Less emphasis on this section)
8. What is Socrates’s/Plato’s argument for censorship of much epic poetry, music, & mythology? Clearly anachronistic: Plato’s view that children should not be exposed to unharmonious thoughts before their character is formed.
Cold War Emphasis of Plato’s Republic: Plato as the first totalitarian (e.g. Karl Popper). Athenians didn’t value personal liberty (negative liberty) as moderns do. Still, it’s a great weakness of Republic: Socrates/Plato describe a closed system of education that relies on social engineering.
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Book III, p. 211 left middle through the End of Book III
- The 3 Parts of the City (or State)
- The Myth of the Metals (Founding Myth on the 3 Parts of the State)
What is the myth of the Metals? How does it help maintain a class society? How does Socrates think it will come to be accepted over time? Why might it be understood as a “noble lie?” What other founding myths can we enumerate?
Why is not better to be a Ruler than a Craftsman or Auxiliary?
The Guardians’ communal living situation in Spartan surroundings will check the perks of power. No one class: Rulers; Auxiliaries (Soldiers); Craftsmen (Money- making workers) will be more happy than any other classes. Socrates thinks a just city will need to assure the equal well-being of all classes.
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Book IV
- Socrates’s defense of the founding myth (IV 419 – IV 421 C)
Why is not better to be a Ruler than a Craftsman or Auxiliary?
No one class: Rulers; Auxiliaries (Soldiers); Craftsmen (Money-making workers) will be more happy than the other classes. Socrates just city must assure the equal well-being of all classes.
The Guardians’ (both Rulers & Auxiliaries) communal living situation in Spartan surroundings will check the benefits & perks of having power.
The Guardians (both the Rulers & Auxiliaries) will not have wealth, property, or luxurious. The Craftsmen will have those things – Adeimantus wonders if the Guardians will be envious of & less happy than the Craftsmen.
No, they won’t be less happy or envious argues Socrates: Rulers & Auxiliaries will have the life of the mind & a strong ability to control their passionate appetites that the Craftsmen will lack.
Socrates hopes & thinks that each class will accept its fixed “lot” and its role in the City.
But he includes the “Founding Myth” or Myth of the Metals as Insurance Plan to help foster & assure this.
- More thoughts on the Specialized Role of the Guardians (421 C – 427 C)
- The 4 Virtues in the City (or State) (427 C – 434 D)
- The 3 Parts of the Soul (434 D 441 C)
- The 4 Virtues in the Soul (441 C – 445 E)
Be sure to understand how each of the 4 cardinal virtues (wisdom, courage, moderation, justice) is to be found in the City, and in the Soul.
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Starting with the beginning of Book V (V 449) (p. 229) Socrates gives a digression on the Ideal Society, which lasts until V 473C (p. 242 bottom right).
You can skim this section (p. 229 through p. 242 bottom right).
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