Ballot: 84-06-650-618 Clarify Shell Inset Plate Requirements / Proposal: / Ballot ID: 910 / Date: October 3, 2006
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Voter Name
(Vote) / Clause No./
Subclause No./Annex
(e.g. 3.1) / Type of Comment / Comment (justification for change) by the Voting Member / Proposed change by the Voting Member / Comment Resolution
Tearle Taylor
Flint Hills Resources
(Affirmative) / 6.1.2.2 / Technical / Under 6.1.2.2 paragraph d does not include the NDE requirements of a insert with no nozzle that does not extend full shell course? On plate which extends full shell should the requirements for radiograph follow the guidelines of API 653 12.2.1.6.2 / Edit the paragraph to include replicate the verbage in API 653 paragraph 12.2.1.6.1 and 12.2.1.6.2.
Kenneth Erdmann
Matrix Service Company
(Negative) / 3.7.1.7a / Technical / I do not agree with the diameter plus 12" requirement. This is an API-653 requirement that requires an insert to be a major repair. In API-650 the only dimensional requirement should be as needed to meet weld spacing and reinforcement. / Delete the plus 12" requirement. Instead add more clarification to 3.7.3 and Figure 3-22 to identify the weld space requirements from necks to the edge of thickened inserts.
Kenneth Erdmann
Matrix Service Company
(Negative) / 3.7.1.7.b / Technical / Do not agree with the flat 12" addition to the repad size to get the insert size. Insert size should only be governed by weld spacing. / Delete the 12" adder requirement and clean up 3.7.3 and Figure 3-22 to more clearly address weld space requirements from the edges of repads to the edge of an insert.
Kenneth Erdmann
Matrix Service Company
(Negative) / 6.1.2.2 d / Technical / Do not agree with default 100% x-ray for all inserts of new tanks. This is a repair requirement where the insert is welded to existing material. If you use 100% RT then your weld spacing should be less from the neck to the edge of a thickened insert of from the edge of the pad to the insert. API currently lets a repad overlap a shell butt weld if it is 100% x-ray inspected but here you require the 100% x-ray even while meeting weld spacing. / Apply same x-ray requirements to inserts as to other butt welded shell seams.
Steven Adolphsen
Morse Construction Group, Inc.
(NonVoter) / 3.7 and 6.1 / Technical / affirmative comments:
3.7.1.7 …
(a) a. The minimum diameter of thickened insert shall be at least the greater of twice the diameter of the penetratin opening or the penetration opening diameter plus 300 mm (12 ‘ in.).
(b) b. When reinforcing plate is used, the minimum diameter of the insert plate shall equal the diameter of reinforcing plate plus 300 mm (12” in.).
6.1.2.2
d. the butt weld around the periphery of an insert plate[not extending full shell course height] containing shell openings […] and its reinforcing elements, {I do not understand how you would radiograph the "reinforcing elements"?} shall be completely radiographed.
For shell insert plate which extends full shell course height, vertical and horizontal butt joints as well as T junctions shall be radiographed, applying the same rules as they apply to the other shell plate at the location in that shell course.
John Lieb
Tank Industry Consultants, Inc.
(Affirmative) / 3.7.1.7 / Editorial / Add article "the" in several places to improve readability of proposed new wording. Additionally, make changes suggested below. / 1) Change " a thicknened" to "thicker".
2) Delete "the proposed shape of".
3) Delete "outlined".
4) Add "requirements for" in front of "area of reinforcing of 3.7.2".
John Lieb
Tank Industry Consultants, Inc.
(Affirmative) / 6.1.2.2.d / Editorial / Make changes suggested below. / 1) Change "T junctions" to "intersections of vertical and horizontal weld joints".
2) Delete hyphen from "radio-graphed".
George Morovich
TEMCOR
(Abstain) / Technical / Full item was not viewable
Terry Delong
Terasen Pipelines (USA) Inc.
(Affirmative) / New Clause 3.7.1.7 / Editorial / 3.7.1.7. a) should add "whichever is greater"?
Randy Kissell
TGB Partnership
(Affirmative) / 3.7.1.7 / Editorial / Change to: "3.7.1.7 Shell openings may be reinforced by the use of an insert plate per Fig. 3-4 B. Insert plates may have the same thickness as an adjacent shell plate or may be thicker. Rectangular insert plates shall have rounded corners (except for edges terminating at the tank bottom or at joints between shell courses) with a radius no less than greater of 150 mm (6 in) or 6t where t is the thickness of the shell course containing the insert plate. Insert plates may contain multiple shell openings. The thickness and dimensions of insert plates shall provide the reinforcing required by 3.7.2. Weld spacing shall meet 3.7.3. The periphery of thickened insert plates shall have a 1:4 tapered transition to the thickness of the adjacent shell plates when the insert plate thickness exceeds the adjacent shell thickness by more than 3 mm (1/8”).
Randy Kissell
TGB Partnership
(Affirmative) / 6.1.2.2 / Editorial / 6.1.2.2
d.The butt-weld around the periphery of an insert plate that does not extend over a full shell course height and that contains shell openings [i.e. nozzle, manway, flush type cleanout, flush type shell connection] and its reinforcing elements shall be completely radiographed.
The butt-weld around the periphery of an insert plate which extends over a full shell course height, vertical and horizontal butt joints, and T junctions shall be radio-graphed, applying the same rules that apply to the shell plate adjacent to the weld location.
John Mooney
(Affirmative) / Editorial / either use "shell insert plates" or "a (or the) shell insert plate"
Bruce Roberts
(Affirmative) / Editorial / Suggested Change: 1st sentence: Two stainless steel plates identical in material type may be welded together prior to erection to form a single shell plate assembly.
2nd sentence: Each plate shall be a minimum of 48” wide and a maximum of 60” wide with no more than two plates being used to form one subassembly.
3rd sentence: The vertical joint offset requirement of 3.1.5.2 (b) applies to vertical field welds of the subassembly to other tank plantes.
Larry Hiner
Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)
(NonVoter) / 3.7.1.7 and Figure 3-4B / Technical / 3.7.1.7 Remove “proposed shape of” in the forth sentence.
In Figure 3-4B add, “shell joint or ” , just before the new phrase “ outer periphery of insert plate (see 3.7.1.7)”
In Figure 3-4B the figure on lower right needs an arrow head at toe of fillet for dimension line pertaining to “(see Note 2)”
Douglas Miller
Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)
(Affirmative) / 3.7.1.7 / Technical / In background section of agenda item it is noted that CSA 350W(50W) material is similar to A537 class 1. However, there is a major difference in heat treatment requrements. A537-1 is always normalized and CSA 350W does not have that requirement. In fact all the materials permitted up to 4” in section 2.2.2 are heat treated in these thicknesses. / Allow CSA 350S(50W) over 2” and up to 4” for insert plates IN NORMALIZED CONDITION.
Douglas Miller
Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)
(Affirmative) / 3.7.1.7 (a) / Technical / First, it is not clear whether the insert plt diameter must be the GREATER or the LESSER of 2x pen dia rule and the pen dia+12” rule.
Second, I think that the penetration dia + 12” rule is sufficient for both repad and insert details.
Third, we must be clear that this min size is applied to the dia at weld not the dia where the bevel starts (reference to Do of figure 3-4B would make this clear)
Douglas Miller
Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)
(Affirmative) / 6.1.2.2 (d) / Editorial / “The butt-weld around the periphery of an inser plate [not extending full shell COURSE height]…..”
Douglas Miller
Chicago Bridge & Iron Company(CB&I)
(Affirmative) / 6.1.2.2 (d) / Editorial / “For shell insert plate which extends full shell course height …… same rules as apply to other JOINTS IN THE SAME SHELL COURSE.”
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API electronic balloting template/version April 2003