Annihilationist S and Universalist S Doctrinal Objections to the Teaching of Eternal Torment

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Annihilationist’s And Universalist’s Doctrinal Objections To The Teaching Of Eternal Torment

Pastor Tony Butler

Lesson Six

In lesson six we are going to attempt to answer many of the questions that U&A’s have concerning hell being more than the grave.

Lets think about it:Lesson six is going to involve your deeper thinking and research in order to attempt to answer the questions listed below. I am asking you to think deeper and give thoughtfulresponses to the questions. For those of you that can print the lesson off on a printer, type your answers after each question and print it off. If you don’t have a printer write your answers on another piece of paper. If you are able,take time to apply scripture or scriptural principles to each question. At a later date I will fill in how I would answer the questions. If you would like to send me your answer to any of the questions I invite you to do so. However, remember, I reserve the right to edit your answer or not include it at all if I don’t feel you are really answering the question. (Teacher’s prerogative)

U&A ObjectionNumber Six

Hell can’t exist because it wasn’t mentioned in the Old Testament

Questions:

1.How can you believe in Hell when two thirds of the bible (OT) doesn’t even mention hell. It only mentions “sheol” which is the grave?

Answer:

Sheol has not been proven to mean the grave, rather the underworld. The Hebrew word “sheol” is found 66 times in the Old Testament. The Old Testament speaks of the body as going to the grave, but it always refers to the soul as going to sheol. The nature of sheol and the condition of those in it is crucial to our understanding of what the Bible teaches about what happens to man after death. There are many contrasts between the grave “keber” and “sheol” the underworld.In the Septuagint (The Greek OT as translated by Jewish scholars about 200 B.C.) sheol is never translated as Gr. “mnaymion” which literaly is the grave. It is always translated as “hadace” which meant the underworld. Kever is translated as “mnaymion” 36x and as “taphos” 45x which is a sepulchre. But kever is never translated as Hades just as Sheol is never translated as “mnaymion”.

Examples:

• 2 Kgs. 23:16 – “Kever”s can be opened or closed by men but “sheol” is never seen to be opened or closed by man.
• Ex. 14:11 – “Kever” is found in plural form as “graves” but “sheol” is never found in scripture as a plural.
• Gen. 35:20 – One can erect a monument over a “kever” but “sheol” is never spoken of as having a monument.
• Gen. 23:4, 6, 9,19, 20; 49:30, 31 – While “kabar” = “to bury” is used with “kever” it is never used in scripture with “sheol”.
• Ex. 14:11 – “Kevers” can be found at a specific location but “sheol” is never localized in scripture because it is everywhere accessible wherever death takes place. “Sheol” is seen as waiting for the dead. “kever’s” are not necessary for a man to go to “sheol”.
• Gen. 23:4-20 – “Kever’s” can be sold and bought as property but “sheol” is never seen as being purchased or owned.
• “Kever’s” are always seen as visible in scripture but “sheol” is never mentioned as being seen by men.
• Jer. 8:1,2 – “Kever’s” can be robbed, defiled and destroyed but “sheol” is never seen as being robbed, defiled, or destroyed by man.
• Prov. 27:20 – “Kever’s” can be filled but “sheol” can never be filled.
• Gen. 35;20; Num. 19:18 – One can decorate or touch a “kever” but “sheol” is never seen as being decorated or touched.
• Gen. 50:13 – Bodies are seen as being placed in “kevers” but never seen as being placed in “sheol”.
• 2 Kings 23:16 – Men have entered and left “kevers” and removed bones but no where does the OT mention a man entering or leaving “sheol” much less removing bones.
• Is 14:19-20; Gen 37:35- Even the unburied go down to “Sheol.” Jacob thought the beasts had devoured Joseph, yet he expected to go to him in Sheol.
• Moses was gathered to his people and was buried in Moab (Deut 34:5-6); yet Miriam had been buried in the wilderness, Aaron on Mt Hor, and his mother who made the ark of bulrushes likely had been buried in the brickfields of Egypt. Moses (Deut 31:16), David, Ahaz, and Manasseh are all said to lie down with their fathers; yet none of them was buried in the family grave.
• Is. 14:11-20 - The King of Babylon is pictured as being brought down into the lowest parts of “sheol” and is observed by others. He is declared not to be buried. If the grave is “sheol” then he would have to be buried.
• Jonah 2:1-2 – Jonah was in “sheol” when he cried out to God. He was conscience and wasn’t in a grave.

2.If Hell is real, why didn't God make that warning plain at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was death - not "eternal life" in fire and brimstone. Moses didn’t mention it in all the Law, nor did any of the pr0phets mention it in their writings? Not a word was mentioned to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Answer:

The OT tells us nothing of the suffering of the wicked in Sheol. But the argument of God’s silence is a poor argument to state something doesn’t exist. There are many things the OT doesn’t mention but are NT realities such as the mystery of the church. Why didn’t God speak of the church and all its positive glories to Moses and the prophets? It isn’t mentioned at all in the OT.

One could easily ask, “Why didn’t God make plain everything in the OT?”Why didn’t He make it plain about the coming of Messiah? The person and work of Christ was taught in the OT (Luke 24:25-27), but was not clearly unveiled until the coming of Jesus. Why didn’t God make it plain about what the Law could do and what it couldn’t do as He did in the NT. Why wasn’t the fact that people would go to heaven revealed more fully in the Old Testament?

Certain aspects of the Trinity are found in the Old Testament, but not are not as clearly developed as in the New Testament. We must allow the same kind of progressive revelation for the Old Testament teaching of the state of individuals after death. It is the preogative of God to reveal information as He so desires. The bible is the Word of God in a written form.

How do we know what God said to people through His representatives on the earth. People like Melchzidek spoke for God in the days of Sodom and Gommorah. We have no idea the kinds of warnings that were given to the people of that day. Enoch certainly prohesied of coming judgment in his day. We have no idea of all the things that might have been said to people of antiquity. We can wonder what role did the angels play in the OT, if any in warning people of judgment? We know Angels will warn the people of the tribulation period not to take the mark of the beast so it is legitimate to speculate as to what their role was in the OT at times by way of warnings. The bottom line is that you can’t say something didn’t exist merely because it wasn’t mentioned in specific, and wasn’t fully developed in written form in the OT.

• The fact is that sheol was known and that the OT believers understood it was a place of the departed dead/spirits. We know for certain that there were necromancers/mediums in the OT that people sought out in order to speak to the dead. On one occasion Elijah was brought up from sheol to speak to King Saul. Sheol had to be more than the grave.
• God clearly condemned paganism in the OT and at no time did He ever condemn belief in a conscious afterlife. At no time did God ever put forth the concept of annihilation or nonexistence as the fate of man’s soul at death.The historical universality of belief in a conscious afterlife among all the ancients is irrefutable. There is no evidence that Israel deviated from this belief. The rabbis clearly taught this to Israel and never is there a mention of God ever correcting them on this issue. The rabbinic tradition before, during, and after the time of Christ describe the souls of both the righteous and the wicked descending into sheol at death and as being conscious after death.

• In the OT the word for “dead” like lying on the ground dead is “ Mooth”. However, at death man also becomes a “rephaim/disembodied spirit” according to Job 26:5; Ps. 88:10; Prov. 2:18; 9:18; 21:16; Isa. 14:9; 26:14, 19. The use of the word “rephaim” makes it clear that when the body dies, the nature of his existence changes to that of a soirit/ghost. He now exists as a spirit and experiences what angels experience. They are capable of such things as thought and speech without the need of a physical body. This idea is clearly seen in the New Testament (Luke 24:37-39). A belief by the apostles in “spirits/ghosts” demands the belief that there is a continuance after the body dies. .

The Nature Of Sheol

• Sheol is described as darkness by Job in 10:21, 22; and by David in Ps.143:3.
• Sheol is described as being “beneath the earth,” or in “the lower parts of the earth” (Job 11:8; Isa. 44:23; 57:9; Ezek. 26:20; Amos 9:2).
• Sheol is a place where one can reunite with his ancestors, tribe or people (Gen. 15:15; 25:8; 35:29; 37:35; 49:33; Num. 20:24, 28; 31:2; Deut. 32:50; 34:5; 2 Sam. 12:23). This cannot refer to one common mass grave where everyone was buried. No such grave site ever existed in all recorded Jewish history. Sheol is the place where the souls of all men go at death.That is why Jacob spoke of re-uniting with Joseph in sheol.

• Sheol has different sections. There is the contrast between “the lowest part” and “the highest part” of Sheol (Deut. 32:22). This could imply that there is a division within sheol. Such a division would agree with Luke 16 concerning the rich man and Lazurus. The fact that the Old Testament makes sharp distinction between the righteous and the wicked in this life indicates that the possibility of the same same distinction continuingin the underworld. The wicked are said to be in “the lowest part,” while the righteous are in “the higher part” of sheol.

• People in the “lowest sheol” experience God’s anger.

For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest “sheol” and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

(Deuteronomy 32:22-24)

• The righteous escape the “lowest sheol”.

For great is Your mercy toward me; and You have delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalms 86:13)

Eze 32:18 Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.

Job 26:5 The departed spirits tremble/writhe in pain under the waters, and those who dwell in them.(The Hebrew word chool means to twist and turn in pain like a woman giving birth.)

Beyond these few passages, the Old Testament does not speak of torment in sheol. However, it does speaks the “continual contempt” which awaits the wicked after the resurrection (Dan. 12:2)A

The OT saints didn’t have a clear understanding of what to expect in Sheol and had much fear. Since then the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and might deliver those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. (Heb. 2:14, 15)OT saints didn’t experience the same joy and bold confidence that New Testament saints express because their sins hadn’t been forgiven by the blood of Jesus yet as ours have.

OT believers understood that sheol was in God’s sight (Job 26:6) and that they could still be in God’s presence and protection (Ps. 139:8). However, the fear has ceased only after Jesus possessed the keys of death and hadace/hell (Rev. 1:18). They didn’t have the blessing of security that we have by being “in Christ”. NT saints think of death as a “gain” (Phil. 1:21), the Old Testament saints thought of it in less positive ways.

Revelation by God is always progressive. Even we as Christians see through a glass darkly compared to what all is going to happen. OT saints weren’t given the kind of revelation needed to approach death with perfect peace on the level we have. However, their lack of revelation isn’t a sufficient reason to deny a clear NT reality of the doctrine of eternal torment.

3.If Hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the Bible? Many nations surrounding Israelin the Old Testament believed in Hell-like punishment in the afterlife, for they served bloodthirsty and evil "gods," while Israel simply taught the grave (sheol) and a hope of a resurrection. Why was the revelation of it first given to pagan nations, instead of God's covenant people? Did God expect Israel to learn about the afterlife from the Pagan Gentiles?

Answer:

As already mentioned, the fact is that all surrounding nations had a belief in life after death. There is zero evidence that Israel ever took any of its beliefs from paganism. To say hell only has its roots in paganism is unfounded.

It is false to teach that sheol is only the grave. I have have given clear contrasts between “keber” and “sheol” as seen above. There was some indication by Moses concerning God’s wrath burning to lowest parts of sheol. There is no way to know what previous means in the 2500 years before Moses God used to warn people. It is shear presumption to declare the torments of sheol came from a pure pagan belief.

4.If Hell is real, why did God tell the Jews that burning their children alive in the fire to the false god Molech, (in the valley of Gehenna ) was so detestable to Him? God said that such a thing "never even entered His mind" (Jer. 32:35). How could God say such a thing to Israel , if He has plans to burn alive a good majority of His own creation in a spiritual and eternal Gehenna of His own making?

Answer:

This is like discussing apple and oranges. The idea in Jer. 32:35concerns worshiping a false God in a hideous way to secure blessings. God isn’t saying the idea of punishment for evil doers didn’t enter into His mind. He is saying the idea of people worshipping Him by killing their children in fire as an offering to Himself was unimagianble.

The U&As are notorious for being God’s judge and speaking of Him as fiendish and worse than Hitler if there is an actual torment of people throughout all ages. They don’t even consider possibilities about retribution that proceeds from God’s holiness and justice in a way that they can’t possibly imagine as mere mortal and sinful humans.

To say that God has no business criticizing Molech worshippers killing their children in fire as tokens of devotion and worship because God Himself puts people in flames as punishment for their sins, (an even more heinous act in their sight) is absolutely incredulous. The reality is that they don’t love God and truly judge Him by the cross. Instead they despise Him in their hearts and judge Him by whether or not there will be eternal flame.

U&A ObjectionNumber Seven

Hell can’t exist because of the way it is used in the NT

5.If Hell is real, why were most of the warnings pertaining to punishment/Gehenna directed to Israel , particularly the Lord's own disciples as well as the Pharisees? The first great cluster of references to Gehenna, are found in the Sermon on the Mount (Mat 5:22, 29, 30), Jesus' great sermon to His disciples in which He warned that one was in danger of Gehenna for the likes of calling someone a fool. This is a far cry from our modern Evangelical interpretation that says not accepting Jesus as your Savior is what sends someone to Hell.

Answer:

As already mentioned, I made it clear that “Geheena” never should have been translated as hell. I think this is the most valid question of U&A’. s I acknowledge it was only spoken to the Jews and is never used by any of the apostles except once by James, the half brother of Jesus. So, the question is rightly asked as to whether or not it ought to be applied to eternal torment. (It must be noted that the doctrine of eternal torment doesn’t stand or fall on the use of “Geheena” alone.)

The Jews were very familiar with oral tradions within Judaism at the time of Jesus. To give you a little understanding of what I am listing below you need to understand a few terms. The first is “Mishna” which is the Oral Torah/Law. The rabbinical analysis of and commentary on the Mishnah is called the “Gemera”. Combined they make up the Talmud.The “Midrash”is any in depth explanation of a point of study of Judaism. Look at the following: