CITY OF NOWTHEN

PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING

TUESDAY, September 27, 2011 @ 7:30 P.M.

(Minutes are being taped for transcribing purposes only)

Present: Jeff Pilon Barry Wagner Harold Jorgensen

Dale Ames Mary Rainville Jim Scheffler

Robert Mahutga

Others: Barry Olson,

Building Official

Chairman Ames called the meeting to order at 7:35 PM

· Pledge of Allegiance

· Approve/Amend tonight’s meeting agenda – September 27, 2011,

Wagner made motion to approve tonight’s meeting agenda of September 27, 2011. Scheffler seconded the motion, all in favor; motion

carried.

· Approve/Amend the August 23, 2011 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes - Rainville made motion to approve amended August 23, 2011 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes as listed below. Wagner seconded the motion all in favor; motion carried.

Amendment added to context of: Item #1 – Public Hearing for: Amendment of the Zoning Ord. #3 for new Commercial and Industrial Light Manufacturing District, plus the new Zoning Map to show these areas.

Note in the Aug. 23, 2011 minutes that the City had received an e-mail from Eldon Farb after he had received this public notice saying: “We understand and endorse the city’s commercial and industrial zones delineation as per TPC’s 16-Aug-11 memorandum (adopted: 13-Jul-10 map) to the city. As per the above memorandum and attached map, it is further understood the entire Farb property is to be zoned as commercial.

1. Floor Items

Ames questioned about his Ordinance book not being up-to-date with all correct ordinances in place. Ms. Mahutga explained that D. Daniel Licht was waiting for P & Z to be done to give us the codification draft. And that the last changes would be looked at in October by the Council.

Pilon said he was under the understanding that D. Daniel Licht was bringing the ordinances up to current standards and leaving open spots for future amendments for our codification of ordinances.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 2

D. Daniel Licht said he would have the codification done before the next Council Meeting.

It was questioned if the Planning & Zoning Commission should get to look at the codification draft before the Council.

2. Discuss Business Licenses in Nowthen (Tabled from P & Z Meeting of August 23, 2011)

Building Official Olson said he had talked with Ramsey Fire Marshall Matt Kohner about what fees would be charged for the businesses to be inspected by them? Mr. Kohner said that City of Ramsey has had some changes. Because some of their Council felt it was too intrusive to some businesses, they have suspended their renewing of licenses. He said the Fire Department was disappointed in this decision and now only new businesses coming into the commercial district are inspected one time only. He said the Fire Department would like to see it go back to all businesses licensing. He said it benefited the fire department because they would know the layout of each building.

Mahutga said the Fire Department shouldn’t need a license to do inspections and that he thought it was mandatory of the fire department to do them.

One thing, Building Official Olson stated, was that if the business left and another one came in, the City needs to know for codes. If a more hazardous use turns to a less hazardous use in a business, it is good to know.

Mahutga asked if the Building Official doesn’t know when a business changes? Building Official Olson said no, when a business sells in the commercial district, we don’t know what kind of business comes in to replace it. That’s were to require business licenses would help.

Mahutga said if a business leaves and someone else buys it and the City doesn’t know what kind of business comes in to replace it, he felt that then with the IUP’s and CUP’s at least it is restrictive as to what the businesses are with these permits. The CUP’s are to stay the same business and the IUP’s now if resident leaves or discontinues the business – it no longer exits.

Jorgensen commented that there are also those businesses in the rural area that aren’t even known to the City, but they are still there and operating. His point is that those who do have IUP’s or CUP’s their land is already taxed as commercial, rural residential ag classification and are paying higher taxes than those who are illegally operating businesses.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 3

Building Official Olson said that Ramsey Fire Marshall Kohner reported that most businesses needed about one hour to go through, but he thought some would only take one half hour here in Nowthen.

Wagner questioned if this would also include IUP’s and CUP’s? Answer was yes it would.

Mahutga said that in the rural area the CUP’s already have a contract with the city and should not need a business license in addition to that.

It was noted that the City Offices has a listing of CUP’s and IUP’s on file.

Building Official Olson commented that the City could go out and do inspections if necessary but the problem is that there is not the man power or time to do this. He also said he felt that the monies needed to do these services, if there are no fees to residents, should not come out of the Building Fund and should be considered a zoning budget of which we don’t have now.

Rainville said if the City did an annual review then any changes would be known.

Ames said that the only way that businesses are re-checked now is if the City receives resident complaints.

Jorgensen said if the insurance companies are on the ball they come out to check what the business does for fire safety issues.

Pilon replied that now the City has capped fire charges for IUP & CUP businesses, plus commercial businesses. If the city doesn’t know of a business that is operating and there is a fire there, then they pay the full cost of the fire services.

Scheffler said maybe it should be looked at differently and instead of saying it is a license fee look at it as an inspection fee.

Building Official Olson said all businesses would be different in the amount of time it would take to inspect them. Wagner replied that you wouldn’t want to pay the same fee as, take for instance, A & B Welding.

Rainville said she felt that licenses would enable the City to put qualifiers on what a business could do and when and when not to run; in short put guidelines on them.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 4

Mahutga disagreed with this statement and said who cares if hours of operating are running 24 hours around the clock as long as it does not disturb neighbors.

Mahutga asked if many issues aren’t code related in order to get their permit? Why is a license needed? Pilon replied it’s the enforcement issue he felt.

Pilon said he knew that in the City of Minnetonka if a business did not report in that they would be shut down because of risk of danger to their firefighters.

Building Official Olson said he felt that licensing was 2-prong:

1. Safety & Building Codes

2. Nuisance – anything that violates the ordinance

Scheffler said he had a question on the Business License Draft that we had been given and that was on Page 2 under Amendments. He said if a person wants to change conditions on a CUP Permit, the way it is now is you would have to come in and re-apply. He asked if that is correct? Building Official Olson said yes that is correct. Scheffler said and by reading this they can change by just amending the license. Rainville said she read it to say to go in and submit a whole new license. Scheffler asked who would tell the business owner that they needed to do this?

Pilon said yes, item 1-4 AMENDMENTS: would have to be revised and changed to say that a change in permit requested by owner requires re-licensing if this is going to be applied to require IUP’s and CUP’s to comply.

Wagner said the concern that he had is if this were the case then there would be two fees to be paid by those with IUP or CUP amended permits; one for re-applying for their change and one for the licensing, whereas the commercial or industrial only pays for one or the license cost.

Scheffler said if the license is issued to the company and the ownership is changed but the company is the same why should there have to be a new license applied for, why can’t it just be transferred? The question on this is noted under Item XX-1-3: TRANSFER PROHIBITED: - Page 2 which also ties in with verbiage on Page 4 – Item XX-2-3: LICENSE TERM: A.

Pilon said he guesses that would be a legal issue to check out for the City.

Pilon said he felt that this draft didn’t factor in IUP’s or CUP’s. He felt that the main concern for CUP’s is for their safety.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 5

In summary these items were most discussed regarding licensing businesses in Nowthen:

1. Do other cities license businesses?

League of MN Cities said that not many do.

Comment if licensed already by County or State then Nowthen would not need to anyway.

2. Do cities license IUP’s & CUP’s

A lot of discussion that no licenses are needed. That they already have their permit and have paid for it, so no license should be required.

Question though that fire inspection would still be okay as long as

after review there is not a mandated change different from their original permit that would impose a cost that forces the business to close down. Also that there should not be a charge for the fire inspection.

3. Is there a charge and how much for licenses?

Thought that businesses in commercial district should be charged

Thought that if IUP’s & CUP’s are licensed that it should come out of a general fund of the City

If there would be re-inspection fees or penalty or double penalty fees?

This brought up question – if this is imposing too many restrictions for business owners?

4. Is there the man power to do reviews by the City?

At this time, there is not the man power or time to do these reviews

5. Question on how often to review and check on businesses

1 year – for new businesses

3 - 5 years – IUP & CUP

2 years for existing commercial

6. What is the purpose of a business license

To have fire inspection – for safety of both the firefighters and the

business owner

To know when a business closes and a new one comes in – what new business replaces it, if then in compliance with building codes.

7. How would businesses in commercial district know that they

needed a business license and apply?

One way would be to tell realtors who call and inquire about a

business property for sale.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 6

Rainville made the motion to table this Business License until further information is acquired and brought back to next month’s meeting date of October 25, 2011. Jorgensen seconded the motion, all in favor; motion carried.

Questions to further check into:

1. If licenses for businesses should include IUP’s and CUP’s – check

with other municipalities and see what they do (Chisago City,

Linwood Township, Livonia & Oak Grove). Inquire with D. Daniel

Licht, AICP of The Planning Company or City Para-Legal.

2. How this will be funded

3. What charges there will be

3. Building Set Backs (Building Official Barry Olson)

Building Official Olson said that he was asked by the City Council to check on and bring back to the P & Z Commission Linwood Township’s ordinance setbacks.

He said that under Section B and B1 thru B5 if you could be in compliance with these, and then also based upon the review and recommendation of the Building Official, that then, a garage or accessory building may be placed closer to an adjacent road than the dwelling unit. The resident would still need to meet the setbacks which are 40 feet (the requirement in Linwood Township).

Ames asked if the set backs in Nowthen now are way out of order? Building Official Olson said no, but if the council wants to loosen things up – this is one way to do it – by letting the building official review, recommend and okay.

Mahutga questioned who had decided that 300 feet should be the set back for an accessory building in the first place? Ames said it was a long time ago, probably when Fred Rhode was on the Commission that this setback had been decided on. Building Official Olson said he thought the main intent was not to place a pole building right in front of a nice home.

Building Official Olson said our Ordinance would have to be changed to allow residents to put their building closer or in front of a dwelling as one previous resident had requested. He said another way might be to say that a resident could put the building out to each side of the dwelling, but not directly in front of it. Right now a house set back on a city street is 120 feet.

Wagner commented that if we have had a lot of set back issues, then it is said you should look into making some amendments.

City of Nowthen

Planning & Zoning Mtg. Sept. 27, 2011 Page 7

But the consensus of the Commission was that we really haven’t had many of these issues over the years.

It was the consensus of the P & Z Commission that there were a lot of other different issues that would tie into this set back discussion. Among them are that we allow more generous sizes of accessory buildings on our lot sizes and it was asked what if our minimum lot size would change from 5 acres to 2 ½ at some time in the future – these things would hold a baring on doing any kind of set back changes.