18th Solar Keymark Network meeting
Revised final draft agenda (R5)
2015-03-10, jen
Meeting time:
Tuesday, March 10th, 2015, 13:00 - 19:00
Wednesday, March 11th, 2015, 08:30 – 14:00
Meeting location:
ENEA Rome Centre
Lungotevere Thaon di Revel, 76
Via Giulio Romano, 41, Ground Floor
00196 Rome, ITALY
WEBCAST GUIDE
For streaming connection, one need to open a browser (not EXPLORER ver. 11 but, preferably, Google Chrome) at , download components SCOPIA (available under the buttons "participates now").
Once installed and activated the plugin in the browser, one need to enter the credentials, as given below, i.e.
NAME: "The name who connects"
Meeting ID: 61345
Subsequently to insert PIN: 2402
(Questions: Vinod Sharma, )
More detailed info on location
List of recommended hotels.
Meeting starts: Tuesday, March 10th, 13:30 (simple lunch 13:00 – 13:30)
Item
/Decision/-resolution requested
/Topic/content/responsible
/Related documents / comments / details
1 / Opening of the meeting (HD)Short welcome and some practical information
2 / Introduction of participants (All)
Excuses from:
- …
3 / x / Approval of the agenda (All)
4 / x / Comments to the minutes of the 17. meeting (HD / All)
… / N0254R0 pdf
5 / x / Date and place of next meeting(s) (HD)
- 19th meeting: October 6th 13:00 - 7th 14:00, 2015, Paris, France (Host/organiser: Francois-Xavier Ball, Eurovent CERTITA)
- 20th meeting: March 8th 13:00 - 9th 14:00, 2016, Berlin, Germany (Host/organiser: Sören Scholz, DIN CERTCO)
- 21st meeting: October xth 13:00 - yth 14:00, 2016, ?
6 / (x) / Review of Decision list/JEN
Any need for follow-up? / N0100R15 pdf
7 / x / Equivalent absorber coatings? (even if no new coatings, the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings) / N0137R11 pdf
8 / (x) / Equivalent glazing? (even if no new glazing, the issue kept in the agenda as reminder for future meetings)
9 / x / Proposal for decision / SCF steering group / HD
A minor part of the annual SCF funding should be allocated to convenors, liaison officers and secretaries in relevant standardisation committees. This part should not exceed 15 – 20% of the total SCF budget.
10 / Presentation of Labelpack A+ / Presentation/PD
11 / x / Proposal for decision / SCF steering group for SCF project applications (6th call) /HD
Funding of proposals from the 6th SCF call
The proposals recommend by the Solar Certification Fund Steering Group for funding as described in document SKN_N0258R0 are accepted and the corresponding activities will be funded. / N0258R0 pdf
12 / x / Proposal for decision: Re-introducing aperture area in collector testing / Andreas Bohren
Aiming at the provision of a solid basis for the implementation of the Energy Labelling, the Solar Keymark Network decides to use again the aperture area for all collector performance figures. The standards EN12975-1 and ISO9806 will be adapted accordingly. / N0257R0 pdf
13 / x / Proposal for decision related to confidentiality / Andreas Bohren
“All SKN documents including presentations, results of SCF projects etc. are BY DEFAULT public. On the Solar Keymark Webpage we make a section “SKN Documents”, where everything is available. Upon request and by decision of the SKN a document can be rated confidential and is then available only to a well-defined group of persons (to be defined together with the request for confidentiality).”
14 / x / Proposal for resolution / S. Scholz:
Section.x.x in SK scheme rules. Handling complaints related to Testing Laboratories and Inspectors
In order:
- To have a harmonized procedure for handling complaints related to testing laboratories,
- To solve complaints in an appropriate time and way,
- To maintain the high reputation of Solar KEYMARK,
- To ensure a fair competition between the testing laboratories, inspectors, and certification bodies,
- The notifying party will inform the respective certification body (CB) by using the form for complaints given in the Annex I of the Solar Keymark scheme rules.
- The CB will forward the complaint to the specific testing laboratory / inspector and ask for clarification and appropriate corrective actions within a defined due time.
- The clarification and corrective action will be sent to CB for assessment.
- The CB will assess this report and decide if a special audit at the testing laboratory or a witness audit for the inspector is required. Especially with respect to testing laboratories, the CB should involve one of the other recognized and well experienced testing laboratories for technical support during the special audit.
- If the CB decides by itself or with recommendation of SKN CB that a special audit is required, the involved testing laboratory / inspector has to pay for the audit as defined in the agreement between certification body and sub-contractors. This will put some pressure on them to avoid such audit.
- If the CB agrees to the provided corrective actions and the complaint is solved, the CB will inform the notifying body about the result by sending back the form.
- If the notifying party still is not satisfied with the provided reply he can contact to convener of the SKN CB group for discussion within the certification bodies.
- The SKN CB group will prepare a summary of complaints not closed (where an agreement was not reached) and send to SKN for presentation at next SKN meeting.
N0106_AnnexI_R0.docx
15 / x / Finalizing Annex F - Freeze resistance test of evacuated tube collectors with heat pipes / Uli Fritzshe
(related to SCF project 3C11a)
From minutes of 17th SKN meeting: Ulrich Fritzsche mentioned that document SKN_N0106_AnnexF_R2 contains comments
from Mr. Koch that were so far not discussed within the SKN and are also partly inconsistent.
It was greed that Ulrich Fritzsche will remove these comments and check the whole document
again for consistency and terminology. Together with Jan Erik Nielsen he will elaborate a
final version of the document that will be made available to the SKN. / N0106_AnnexF_R3 pdf
16 / x / Proposal for resolution „ Validity of SK certificates issued based on EN 12975-2” / HD
The document SKN_N0106_AnnexH_R1.pdf does not completely reflect the results of the discussion that took place at the 17. Solar Keymark network meeting at Brussels on 30.09. and 01.10.2014.
Hence the sentence “The due date for transition all certificates to the new standard is 2020-12-31” is shall be changed to
“The due date for transition of all certificates to ISO 9806:2013 is 2025-12-31”
17 / x / Decision „ Performance test of systems with non-opaque collectors” / HD
The performance of systems with collectors being non-opaque from the backside shall be tested outdoors under the conditions as specified in ISO9806:2013, clause 21.6.
Note: In ISO9806:2013, clause 21.6 it is – among others – the following is stated:
The solar reflectance of the background used during the performance test of collectors being non-opaque from the back shall not exceed 20 %. The solar reflectance of the background used shall be reported in the test report.”
18 / x / Voluntary collector label / Stephan Abrecht
“SKN supports the idea of a collector energy output label. The guideline and the label design developed by Stefan Abrecht/Solar Experience GmbH will be further investigated and checked if it can be included in the scheme of Solar Keymark as voluntary possibility for companies to get such a label issued by Solar Keymark organization/ESTIF as add on to the standard Solar Keymark certification scheme (Datasheet 1 and 2)”.
Remark: If ESTIF/SKN will go for a label of my design and according to my method, they will receive the rights to use the idea and the design for free, as I have no financial interest but only the interest to promote solar thermal energy to get the necessary importance in the heating supply of the future. One possible label design for medium temperature 50°C is attached for your confidential information in advance!
I would appreciate, if you could organize the topic to be on the second day (March 11th)…Stephan
Rainer Koch > yes, perhaps should be aligned with existing energy savings program / Presentation/S. Abrecht
Article
19 / New collector data sheet / Patrik Ollas, SP
(related to SCF project 5C1.5)
Proposal for resolution:
Annex B of S scheme rules Harmonised format for collector data sheet is revised according to enclosed N0259R0 and comments below (and Scenocalc is revised accordingly accordingly)
Andreas. Bohren
a) Page 2 the CDR data are calculated the wrong way (EtaAperture should be bigger than EtaGross)
b) For steady state unglazed: e/a is not used and the formula for G” is not used (should be G”=G+(EL-sigma*T^4)).
c) For unglazed we have to agree on an ambient temperature: Proposal 20°C.
Francis Kliem, ISFH
- (same issue as Andreas (a) above/ jen) "Data required for CDR (EU) No 812/2013" is not correct. It is just a little mistake with the efficiency data eta0, a1 and a2 related to the aperture area. The data sheet should use the ratio of gross area to aperture area for the calculation of the aperture related coefficients.
In the data sheet, the two surfaces are accidentally swapped.
The same goes for a1 and a2.
- Secondly I have a comment to the "additional information" regarding the impact resistance according to EN ISO 9806. The standard describes the test with ice ball and with steel ball. It would be nice to have a drop down menu containing the 2 valid methods. Now it seems that only 1 method is valid.
I need to come back to the issue of Power output per collector on page 1 for steady state. Here the data sheet still says G = 1000 W/m² were as annex A.16.3. of ISO 9806 asks for the values at Gb=850 W/m² and Gd = 150 W/m2. This will result in different values on the data sheet than in the test report.
Mark Witt TÜV US
Row 11 for “Collector Type” does not include a concentrating collector option. Is there any plan to include that in future? For now, how are datasheets for concentrators to be generated?
Rainer Koch
For a better collector performance rating a data sheet with different performance outcomes , similar to SRCC collector rating may show more relevant information for the collector application in different climatic regions , (ISO9806 shows climatic classes A, B and C ?) / Presentation / P. Ollas
N0259R0.docx
20 / x / Proposal(s) for decision(s) for funding of SKN working group convenor(s)
- Proposal for decision / Jaime Fernandez: A funding of 500 € for Jaime Fernandez, the convenor of the working group that proposed the document for Resolution M17.R5 – Transition from EN 12975-1&2 to EN 12975-1 and EN ISO 9806:2013. The document approved is N0106_Annex_H_R1.
21 / x / Proposal for decision conc. election of chairman
Election of SKN chairman is postponed to the SK meeting in October 2015 in order prepare the election in a proper way.
Note 1: Excuses from the SK secretary not to have noticed that it is now time for election of chairman – I was given notice 20/2 on this and I think it is not possible to prepare an election including call for candidates in proper way with only around two weeks to the meeting.
Note 2: Late input from ESTESC for discussion only: Please consider the idea to make a proposal for a resolution for the next meeting changing the working rules in a way that a chairman could be re-elected more than once - anyway there shall of course be a call for candidates in due time before next meeting.
22 / x / Resolution „ SK Scheme Rules; Annex E: Factory production control” / HD
The document SKN_N0106_AnnexE_R1 (SK Scheme Rules; Annex E: Factory production control) shall be rejected:
Justification:
The requirements in the document are unacceptable high and furthermore the document at is present stage is not appropriate to all types of solar collectors and systems. / N0106_AnnexE_R1
23 / x / Resolution concerning SK Scheme Rules; Annex E: Factory production control / JF
New annexes E proposed for SK / N0106_AnnexE_R2
24 / x / Resolutions concerning SK Scheme Rules; Annex E: Factory production control & Annex A: Inspection report / JF
Alternative annexes A1b proposed for SK (could be used instead of existing Annex A1 – which is then to be renamed to A1a) / N0106_AnnexA1b_R0
25 / Information on status of new versions of scheme rules Annex A and Annex E / Jaime Fernandez
(related to SCF 4C05) / N0260R0.docx
N0261R0.xlsx
26 / "SCEnOCalc CAO calculation for SAHC" / K. Kramer / Presentation/kk
27 / Inclusion of performance test results of unglazed collectors in Solar Keymark data sheets / SP?
28 / Validation of ScenoCalc / SP?
(related to SCF 5C1.5) / Presentation?
29 / SKN fee income 2015 / JEN / Presentation/jen
30 / Global certification update / JEN
(related to SCF 4C01 and 4C03)
31 / Update on “Fundamental new database that can also be used for the generation of data sheets” / JEN
(related to SCF 4C07 and 5C6.1) / N0253R1 Doc to come
32 / Update on CE marking of collectors / Andreas Bohren
(related to SCF 5C5.1)
33 / Energy labelling / Gerard v. Amerongen
- Presentation of Manual on Lot 1 and Lot 2 on solar thermal products (related to SCF 4C16a)
- Standards harmonization with regards to CEN mandate 495 (related to SCF 5C2.1)
34 / Updates from Liaison officers
Liaison officers to IEC/TC117, (related to SCF 5C4.1)
Liaison officers to TC164, (related to SCF 5C4.2)
Liaison officers to TC228, (related to SCF 5C4.3)
Liaison officers to TC 371, (related to SCF 4C12c / SCF 5C4.4) / Presentations to come
35 / Reporting from:
- “Certification Body Group” / Sören Scholz
- “Inspection Group” / Jaime Fernandez
36 / Information from CEN TC 312 / Vassiliki Drosou ?
37 / Information from CEN/CCB / Sören Scholz
- Status for outsourcing the Keymark
38 / Solar Certification Fund Projects – General Status Reports / PD
39 / Problems related to transition from old EN 12975-1&2 to new EN 12975-1 and new ISO 9806/ ?
Maria Joao Carvalho:
A situation has been brought up to CERTIF which may require an interpretation from SKN regarding the specified conditions to be applied when performing the Mechanical Load Test (§ 16 of ISO 9806).
Regarding test conditions, clause 16.3 defines that the test pressure shall be 2400 Pa or as specified by the manufacturer. So, should 2400 Pa be interpreted as a minimum test value or if the manufacturer specifies a lower value can it be accepted and SK granted in case the test is successful?
40 / PED and systems ? / Ioannis Alexiou
At the past we had done an investigation about the PED directive for collectors. I propose also an investigation for the boilers about the directives for pressure equipment 97/23/EC, for simple vessels 87/404/ΕΟΚ, 90/488/ΕΟΚ, 93/68/ΕΟΚ etc.
41 / Update Solar Keymark brochure / Ioannis Alexiou
I believe that we should revise our brochure to a new version so as to include all the testing laboratories and certification bodies and also to improve the image of SOLAR KEYMARK. My proposal is that ESTIF can undertake this project.
42 / Experience with misuse of Solar Keymark - exchange of information
43 / Any other business
1. …
44 / Important/interesting national news/developments
1. …
45 / End of meeting /HD
Meeting ends Wednesday, March 11th, 13:30 – simple lunch 13:30 – 14:00
Meeting duration
1st day: 13:30 – 19:00 = 5:30; two coffee break 0:30 effective meeting time 4:30
1st day: 08:30 – 13:30 = 5:00; two coffee breaks á 0:30 effective meeting time 4:30
4:30 + 4:30 hours = 9:00 hours = 540 minutes, 45 issues => 12 minutes in average per issue
HD: Harald Drück, ITW, Stuttgart University, Chairman Solar Keymark Network,
JEN:Jan Erik Nielsen, Solarkey Int., ESTIF Technical Consultant, Technical Secretary of Solar Keymark Network,
PD:PD, ESTIF Deputy Secretary General, Administrative Secretary of Solar Keymark Network, pedro.dias(at)estif.org
Time schedule for all meetings:
Schedule for the meetings to be held at ENEA, Rome Centre, March 2015 / Agenda fromTuesday / 10-Mar
10:00 / - / 13:00 / SKN Inspector's bodies working group meeting / Jaime Fernandez
13:00 / - / 13:30 / Simple lunch (sandwiches / standing lunch)
13:30 / - / 19:00 / SKN meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
Wednesday / 11-Mar
08:30 / - / 13:30 / SKN meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
13:30 / - / 14:00 / Simple lunch
14:00 / - / 16:00 / GSCN Board meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
14:00 / - / 16:00 / CEN/TC 312 WG 1 meeting / Andreas Bohren
16:00 / - / 19:00 / CEN/TC 312 WG 2 meeting / Vinod Sharma
Thursday / 12-Mar
09:00 / - / 13:30 / GSCN meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
13:30 / - / 14:00 / Simple lunch
14:00 / - / 19:00 / GSCN meeting (cont.) + Task 43 meeting / Jan Erik Nielsen
SKN / Solar Keymark Network
GSCN / Global Solar Certification Network